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ASK THE EXPERT - MOLDER
by Michelle » Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:11 am
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Michelle - Black Belt
- Posts: 1529
- Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:27 am
If you have any question about molding and plastics, please ask away here.
Randy has graciously volunteered to try to help with this issue.
Randy has graciously volunteered to try to help with this issue.
by Road Show » Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:26 am
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Road Show - Brown Belt
- Posts: 962
- Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:39 pm
- Location: SoCal
Randy,
The field of my invention is bottle caps. I have been quoted 10-15K to make a one up mold of one embodiment, so I have redesigned the cap to sidestep the issues of the first cap design. I know of a guy who buys obsolete tooling, cores out the cavities and creates inserts for new items. What are your thoughts regarding this approach? I believe there is a tremendous cost savings, particularly in the prototyping stage of the process.
RSG
The field of my invention is bottle caps. I have been quoted 10-15K to make a one up mold of one embodiment, so I have redesigned the cap to sidestep the issues of the first cap design. I know of a guy who buys obsolete tooling, cores out the cavities and creates inserts for new items. What are your thoughts regarding this approach? I believe there is a tremendous cost savings, particularly in the prototyping stage of the process.
RSG
The cost for a Bottle cap tool
by Work2XL » Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:12 pm
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Work2XL - Blue Belt
- Posts: 478
- Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:56 pm
- Location: Denver
Road Show,
The bottle cap industry is pretty competitive. There are several big boys out there. White Cap was one of the bigger ones back when I was still in the bottle industry. As far as the tool goes, 10-15K sounds about right. I do believe you could find it cheaper, but that would be an average bid. Closer to the 15K) There are a couple ways to create a prototype tool if it has internal threads. (Screw on cap) They are rack and pinion, collapsable core, and hand insert. The third would be the cheapest to make from a mold $ stand point, now you have to add labor to unscrew the insert from the cap after it has cooled. It depends on how many you are wanting to run at a time. If you are just looking make a Sample, I'd recomend using a rapid prototyping service.
If you are talking about a snap cap that's a different story, and even easier to make a tool for. If it is a completely new design of a cap, I'd have to see it or a drawing to tell the best way to produce.
In the industry, bottle caps tools make 100+ caps per shot and run about a 4 to 6 second cylcle. That's 1200 caps per minute. It will be very hard to compete with these tools on a per piece price.
On a side note, if your contact that recovers componets of tools is looking for more tools, have him send me an email. I'll be scrapping about 100 tools in the next month or two.
You can email me directly if you have other questions, or if this didn't answer your question.
The bottle cap industry is pretty competitive. There are several big boys out there. White Cap was one of the bigger ones back when I was still in the bottle industry. As far as the tool goes, 10-15K sounds about right. I do believe you could find it cheaper, but that would be an average bid. Closer to the 15K) There are a couple ways to create a prototype tool if it has internal threads. (Screw on cap) They are rack and pinion, collapsable core, and hand insert. The third would be the cheapest to make from a mold $ stand point, now you have to add labor to unscrew the insert from the cap after it has cooled. It depends on how many you are wanting to run at a time. If you are just looking make a Sample, I'd recomend using a rapid prototyping service.
If you are talking about a snap cap that's a different story, and even easier to make a tool for. If it is a completely new design of a cap, I'd have to see it or a drawing to tell the best way to produce.
In the industry, bottle caps tools make 100+ caps per shot and run about a 4 to 6 second cylcle. That's 1200 caps per minute. It will be very hard to compete with these tools on a per piece price.
On a side note, if your contact that recovers componets of tools is looking for more tools, have him send me an email. I'll be scrapping about 100 tools in the next month or two.
You can email me directly if you have other questions, or if this didn't answer your question.
My background
by Work2XL » Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:28 pm
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Work2XL - Blue Belt
- Posts: 478
- Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:56 pm
- Location: Denver
I posted this earlier in another topic but, I've volunteered for ask a molder. I'm a second generation molder with blow molding and injection molding background. I've been New project manager (part design), process engineer, maintenance manager, material purchasing, QA inspector, Continuous improvement director, and head janitor in the plastic industry. I have contacts in Rapid Prototyping, Mold Design, Several Manufacturers around the country, (I've moved 32 times) and currently work in an injection plant with it's own tool design shop.
I don't consider myself an expert in any one field, I have a pretty extensive knowlege in just about every aspect of the game. If I don't know the answer, I'll tell you. But if I don't know, I'm pretty sure I can find out for you.
work2xl@comcast.net
I'm in Dever, CO.
Feel free to email me with any questions. I will make every effort to check this section daily, but I can't promise.
If you email me just make sure you put a note in the subject about this site so I know not to delete your email before reading it.
Randy
I don't consider myself an expert in any one field, I have a pretty extensive knowlege in just about every aspect of the game. If I don't know the answer, I'll tell you. But if I don't know, I'm pretty sure I can find out for you.
work2xl@comcast.net
I'm in Dever, CO.
Feel free to email me with any questions. I will make every effort to check this section daily, but I can't promise.
If you email me just make sure you put a note in the subject about this site so I know not to delete your email before reading it.
Randy
Last edited by Work2XL on Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
by Road Show » Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:45 pm
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Road Show - Brown Belt
- Posts: 962
- Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:39 pm
- Location: SoCal
Hi Randy,
I would like to email you, but I don't have your address. Mine is theroadshowguy@yahoo.com . If you could just send me a quick email, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks,
Doug
I would like to email you, but I don't have your address. Mine is theroadshowguy@yahoo.com . If you could just send me a quick email, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks,
Doug
by rickvoo » Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:28 am
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rickvoo - White Belt
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:09 am
Michelle and Randy,
I've recently invented a device that requires a rigid plastic ring to be injection molded with teeth on the inner diameter. Much like an internal threaded plastic ring BUT......my teeth are NOT THREADS. The teeth I need go 360 degrees around the ring ID but they are not helical so the molded parts cannot be screwed off the core. I also cannot use intermittant teeth. They must be continuous 360 degrees.
I know there is such a thing as a collapsable core. Is this a big deal ? Are collapsable cores well known in the industry ? I sure would appreciate any thoughts or guidance.
Best regards
Rick
I've recently invented a device that requires a rigid plastic ring to be injection molded with teeth on the inner diameter. Much like an internal threaded plastic ring BUT......my teeth are NOT THREADS. The teeth I need go 360 degrees around the ring ID but they are not helical so the molded parts cannot be screwed off the core. I also cannot use intermittant teeth. They must be continuous 360 degrees.
I know there is such a thing as a collapsable core. Is this a big deal ? Are collapsable cores well known in the industry ? I sure would appreciate any thoughts or guidance.
Best regards
Rick
Rick
by Work2XL » Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:03 pm
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Work2XL - Blue Belt
- Posts: 478
- Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:56 pm
- Location: Denver
Yes collapsable cores are done in several applications. Bottle caps would be an example. It depends on the travel depth of the teeth. They do tend to get pricey. Depending on the geometry there may be a couple other options that are a bit cheaper initially. One is overmolding, another is slide inserts. I'm not real sure from your description exactly what your ring looks like. I have a couple of questions that may help identify other avenues you could go. If you want to contact me direclty you can email me at work2xl (at) comcast.net I would sign a NDA if it is needed.
If you do go with collapsable cores, I would recomend only using an experienced company (with collapsable cores) to design the tool. You should be able to find one to design and warranty a tool, but have it built overseas for cheaper than you can have it built here. In most cases.
Randy
If you do go with collapsable cores, I would recomend only using an experienced company (with collapsable cores) to design the tool. You should be able to find one to design and warranty a tool, but have it built overseas for cheaper than you can have it built here. In most cases.
Randy
ballpark figure
by Inventech » Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:55 am
- Inventech
- White Belt
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:30 am
Randy,
I have an invention that looks just like a condom but is about 20 inches long and 3-6mm thick. It is made of TPE like a SBS block co-polymer and has a durometer about the same as a condom. About how much would it cost to have it injection molded? How much for low and high volume about?
HS
I have an invention that looks just like a condom but is about 20 inches long and 3-6mm thick. It is made of TPE like a SBS block co-polymer and has a durometer about the same as a condom. About how much would it cost to have it injection molded? How much for low and high volume about?
HS
Making my own prototype?
by BurbankGal » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:24 am
- BurbankGal
- White Belt
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:45 pm
To make my own prototype, I found a place that has the following equipment that you can use, once you take a "How To" class:
Plastics
Blow Molding Station
(Heating and Inflating PET and PVC Preforms into Molds to Make Bottles)
Casting, Vacuum
(Making Molds and Casting Objects with Plastic)
Injection Molding Station
(Injecting Melted Plastic into Metal Dies)
Plastic Seam Welder, Floor Mounted
(Making Waterproof Bags and Air Inflatable Devices)
Plastic Welding Setup
(Welding Polyethylene, ABS, Styrene, Nylon, etc.)
Rotational Molding Machine
(Motor-Driven 2-Axis Spinner Tumbles Molds)
Vacuum Forming Station
(Forming Sheet Plastics Over a Form)
------------------------------------
Prototyping
3D Printer, Dimension BST
(Produces 3D Objects from CAD Programs in Tough ABS Plastic)
Laser Cutter, Epilog
(Cuts and Etches Metals, Plastics and Other Materials)
Milling Machine, Desktop, CNC
(Producing 3D Objects)
-----------------
Question: If I make my own prototype, will I then be putting myself in a worse position, when it comes to mass manufacturing of the product?
Thanks.
Plastics
Blow Molding Station
(Heating and Inflating PET and PVC Preforms into Molds to Make Bottles)
Casting, Vacuum
(Making Molds and Casting Objects with Plastic)
Injection Molding Station
(Injecting Melted Plastic into Metal Dies)
Plastic Seam Welder, Floor Mounted
(Making Waterproof Bags and Air Inflatable Devices)
Plastic Welding Setup
(Welding Polyethylene, ABS, Styrene, Nylon, etc.)
Rotational Molding Machine
(Motor-Driven 2-Axis Spinner Tumbles Molds)
Vacuum Forming Station
(Forming Sheet Plastics Over a Form)
------------------------------------
Prototyping
3D Printer, Dimension BST
(Produces 3D Objects from CAD Programs in Tough ABS Plastic)
Laser Cutter, Epilog
(Cuts and Etches Metals, Plastics and Other Materials)
Milling Machine, Desktop, CNC
(Producing 3D Objects)
-----------------
Question: If I make my own prototype, will I then be putting myself in a worse position, when it comes to mass manufacturing of the product?
Thanks.
12 posts
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