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First invention, need help with heating water
by tokyo » Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:15 pm
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Ok, so I am working on a prototype for my first invention while I do market testing.
For the morst part it has been pretty straight forward, but I am having one issue.
Basically there is a 1/2" tube that attaches to a water line and the water needs to be heated to a set temperature(within a few degrees farenheit) by the time it comes out the other end. The set temperature will be between 65°F and 90°F.
Any Ideas? I know there are "in-line" heaters available, but they usually are used on a circuit rather than a source line.
Also, the cheaper and more space efficient the heating device is the better. The product needs to stay under $300.
For the morst part it has been pretty straight forward, but I am having one issue.
Basically there is a 1/2" tube that attaches to a water line and the water needs to be heated to a set temperature(within a few degrees farenheit) by the time it comes out the other end. The set temperature will be between 65°F and 90°F.
Any Ideas? I know there are "in-line" heaters available, but they usually are used on a circuit rather than a source line.
Also, the cheaper and more space efficient the heating device is the better. The product needs to stay under $300.
Re: First invention, need help with heating water
by JoeWaisman » Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:56 pm
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JoeWaisman - Green Belt
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I thought of doing something very similar to this some time ago...probably for the same reasons too. I'm not a fan of plumbing so it never made it to the "write it down" stage. I don't know of a specific solution that would meet your needs...but it is very possible to make the item you described.
What you need is an inline heater with a different control system from those found in circulating systems. For example, 1) in a hot tub the water would be heated and pass into the main "pool" of water. 2) A thermostat would turn the heater on or off based upon the temperature of the water. Your problem is more interesting...
You will be dealing with variable rates of water flow. The amount of time you have to heat the water will be based upon the length of your heated pipe section and the flux of the water.
There are two equivalent ways of looking at this problem:
A) The amount of power needed to heat the water will depend upon the time it is exposed to heat, and the volume that passes through the heated section in that time.
B) This is equivalent to saying the amount of power needed to heat the water will depend upon the 1) flux (speed) of the water, 2) diameter of the pipe, 3) desired temperature 4) incoming temperature and 5) the length of the pipe.
The 2nd and 5th data points however will be constant so they can be ignored and you would only have to look at 1) the speed of the water and 3) desired/starting temp. As the water speed doubles the amount of energy required to bring the water to the same temperature also doubles...if you assume that the pipe acts as a null insulator.
As for the design...you could either have an engineer/math type calculate the amount of energy needed to heat the water...or you could build the device, measure the results and calibrate the device accordingly. If I were doing this for a large company I'd go the engineer route...personal prototype, I'd go the prototype route.
What you need is an inline heater with a different control system from those found in circulating systems. For example, 1) in a hot tub the water would be heated and pass into the main "pool" of water. 2) A thermostat would turn the heater on or off based upon the temperature of the water. Your problem is more interesting...
You will be dealing with variable rates of water flow. The amount of time you have to heat the water will be based upon the length of your heated pipe section and the flux of the water.
There are two equivalent ways of looking at this problem:
A) The amount of power needed to heat the water will depend upon the time it is exposed to heat, and the volume that passes through the heated section in that time.
B) This is equivalent to saying the amount of power needed to heat the water will depend upon the 1) flux (speed) of the water, 2) diameter of the pipe, 3) desired temperature 4) incoming temperature and 5) the length of the pipe.
The 2nd and 5th data points however will be constant so they can be ignored and you would only have to look at 1) the speed of the water and 3) desired/starting temp. As the water speed doubles the amount of energy required to bring the water to the same temperature also doubles...if you assume that the pipe acts as a null insulator.
As for the design...you could either have an engineer/math type calculate the amount of energy needed to heat the water...or you could build the device, measure the results and calibrate the device accordingly. If I were doing this for a large company I'd go the engineer route...personal prototype, I'd go the prototype route.
___________________________________________
"The horse is here to stay but the automobile is only a novelty, a fad."
Fun links:
*http://www.scribd.com/doc/441708/Bad-Predictions-About-Great-Inventions
"The horse is here to stay but the automobile is only a novelty, a fad."
Fun links:
*http://www.scribd.com/doc/441708/Bad-Predictions-About-Great-Inventions
Re: First invention, need help with heating water
by tokyo » Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:41 pm
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Hmm, that sounds very complicated. I'm no engineer, and figuring that out myself would be a challenge that I don't think I'm willing to get into. Hiring an engineer to figure it out and design it for me is a possibility, but sounds expensive.
I was also thinking of just using two waterline attachments, one to the cold water and one to the hot water, then use a couple ball valves to control the water flow of each. Then with the use of an in-line thermometer it would be easy to get the temperature right. The only problem with that is that the water doesn't always come out of the pipe at the same temp, so the user would need to adjust the temp with each use, which would significantly reduce the value of the product.
Although maybe if the instructions suggested letting the water run for five minutes before setting the temp for the first time the problem wouldn't be as significant.
I was also thinking of just using two waterline attachments, one to the cold water and one to the hot water, then use a couple ball valves to control the water flow of each. Then with the use of an in-line thermometer it would be easy to get the temperature right. The only problem with that is that the water doesn't always come out of the pipe at the same temp, so the user would need to adjust the temp with each use, which would significantly reduce the value of the product.
Although maybe if the instructions suggested letting the water run for five minutes before setting the temp for the first time the problem wouldn't be as significant.
Re: First invention, need help with heating water
by JoeWaisman » Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:28 pm
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JoeWaisman - Green Belt
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Try this then: http://www.us.kohler.com/tech/products/ ... onents.jsp
___________________________________________
"The horse is here to stay but the automobile is only a novelty, a fad."
Fun links:
*http://www.scribd.com/doc/441708/Bad-Predictions-About-Great-Inventions
"The horse is here to stay but the automobile is only a novelty, a fad."
Fun links:
*http://www.scribd.com/doc/441708/Bad-Predictions-About-Great-Inventions
Re: First invention, need help with heating water
by tokyo » Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:12 am
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Thats pretty cool. I think its a bit too expensive though.
What about this? I could use a solenoid that is attached to a thermo senosr. Basically you would set the temp using the ball valves during the first use, then you would leave it. If the water temp dropped or raised out of a set "safety zone" the solenoid would shut it off until the temp returned to a safe temperature.
I could also get a little more complicated and use the same idea to replicate your Kohler suggestion. I could use two solenoids, one on the hot water supply and one on the cold water supply, then have a thermo sensor after they mix. If the water temp is under a certain temp the cold water shuts off, if the water temp is above a certain temp the hot water shuts off.
What about this? I could use a solenoid that is attached to a thermo senosr. Basically you would set the temp using the ball valves during the first use, then you would leave it. If the water temp dropped or raised out of a set "safety zone" the solenoid would shut it off until the temp returned to a safe temperature.
I could also get a little more complicated and use the same idea to replicate your Kohler suggestion. I could use two solenoids, one on the hot water supply and one on the cold water supply, then have a thermo sensor after they mix. If the water temp is under a certain temp the cold water shuts off, if the water temp is above a certain temp the hot water shuts off.
Re: First invention, need help with heating water
by JoeWaisman » Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:39 pm
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JoeWaisman - Green Belt
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- Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:10 pm
For a prototype, that would work well. If your concept proves successful and marketable then a more refined (and equally inexpensive) process would make more sense.
___________________________________________
"The horse is here to stay but the automobile is only a novelty, a fad."
Fun links:
*http://www.scribd.com/doc/441708/Bad-Predictions-About-Great-Inventions
"The horse is here to stay but the automobile is only a novelty, a fad."
Fun links:
*http://www.scribd.com/doc/441708/Bad-Predictions-About-Great-Inventions
Re: First invention, need help with heating water
by DaS Energy » Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:08 pm
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Hello Joe,
Asside the heat source only a pressure valve is required.
Water at any temperature has an expansion volume.
Happy to swap information.
Cheers
Peter
Asside the heat source only a pressure valve is required.
Water at any temperature has an expansion volume.
Happy to swap information.
Cheers
Peter
Re: First invention, need help with heating water
by JoeWaisman » Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:34 pm
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JoeWaisman - Green Belt
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- Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:10 pm
Peter, your questions fall in the realm of systems engineering and I find that sort of thing interesting. If I can help, let me know. If you need an NDA / non-compete let me know. I've sent my e-mail address to you in a private message.
Joe
Joe
___________________________________________
"The horse is here to stay but the automobile is only a novelty, a fad."
Fun links:
*http://www.scribd.com/doc/441708/Bad-Predictions-About-Great-Inventions
"The horse is here to stay but the automobile is only a novelty, a fad."
Fun links:
*http://www.scribd.com/doc/441708/Bad-Predictions-About-Great-Inventions
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