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Has a Great Invention Idea Gone Wrong ?
by Gizmo » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:05 pm
- Gizmo
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A few weeks ago I ran up on a line of power tool accessories I’ve never seen before while searching products on the web. As soon as I seen it I was like wow why didn’t I think of that. It was really a no brainer idea and I couldn’t imagine why no one has ever done it before. I started to do some more research on the tool system wanting to learn more about it. As I dug up the info I found out a young carpenter from Indiana came up with the idea and sold the idea to a small tool company.....Good for him.
These tools are being sold in every Diyer home center hardware chain stores throughout the USA, Canada and about to be distributed thought other countries. Now this product really had my interest so I went looking for the Patent or application, I wanted to see how the patent was written for protection. It took me about 20 minutes to locate the application. I read the application and looked at the drawings then decided to go snoop around in the USPTO Public Pair file to see what kind of fight the inventor was having with the patent examiner.
After looking at the file I figured out its waiting to be examined and decided I will check back later to see how many hoops the examiner has the inventor jump though to keep the claims.
Two days after looking at the Patent Pair file I woke up late one night from a deep sleep thinking the system the inventor and company have was going to damage the power tool they suggest it to be used in. The power tools they suggest the accessory tools work in just aren’t designed to hold up without breaking down the motor shaft. I knew of an application that could be used with another power tool that would never break down, the application would actually be perfect but a tool holder would need to be designed to accept the inventor/company’s tool line. I knew how to do that and finished the concept in a couple days. I did all my product, patent, prior art due diligence finding nothing like it in the industry and figured I wouldn’t, due to the company’s tool line was totally new to the industry so there wasn’t a need for it to be developed since they didn’t suggest using their tools in the power tool I was.
Know that I have my tool holder developed I decided to investigate the inventor/company’s tool line some more. After digging into start to finish I found out the inventor filed for a provisional patent application on 6/28/2008. One year later he filed for the non-provisional application on 6/27/2008 and waiting for the application to be examined.
As I dug into the inventor and his invention I found out he had a booth at the International Hardware Show in Vegas in 2008 and had great response on his product line and actually one some best of show awards and major retailers wanted his product. Something sparked in my head making me research to see when the 2008 show was.
After researching the 2008 show I found the dates were 5/6-8/2008 when the show was open and realized the inventor’s public disclosure date was at least 5/6/2008 and had reason to believe it might even be before that. After looking at the public disclosure date, provisional application, and the non-provisional date I knew the inventor had really screwed up or was guided the wrong way by someone. Wow he had a paper trail on the internet that was easy to follow and there was no way to go back and modify the dates. All I could do was shake my head and say wow how the hell could this happen. Look at the dates below.
May 6-8 2008 2008 International Hardware Show (Minimum Public Disclosure Date)
June 28th 2008 Provisional Patent Application (3 weeks after Public Disclosure)
June 27th 2009 Non-Provisional Application ( 1 yr & 3 weeks after public disclosure)
If the dates are correct the inventor’s non-provisional application should be considered null and void if challenged because it was filed for 3 weeks late from the disclosure date of 5/6/2008. I decided to go back on the internet to verify the dates and they were correct. To my surprise I found articles written by news papers and magazines that indicated the inventor was making the tools on his own in his garage in 2007 selling them to the public. Now we know the date of public disclosure was in 2007, and could really be considered null and void if challenged.
I did find info that indicated the inventor got a good chunk of $$$ from the company that bought his technology and get royalties from the product sold. Initially my impression was the inventor sold 100% of the invention.
My question is.
1.What are the chances the USPTO examiner will run up on the public disclosure information during their research?
2.How do I approach this company with my new design for a license deal.
3.Did the inventor & company know the non-provisional application disclosure date was past the 1yr cutoff date.
4.Since the invention was past the 1 yr cut off disclosure date wouldn’t the invention be free game for anyone to manufacture and sell without any legal trouble that could come from the inventor/company.
This looks like a great invention idea gone wrong to me.
Any thoughts.
These tools are being sold in every Diyer home center hardware chain stores throughout the USA, Canada and about to be distributed thought other countries. Now this product really had my interest so I went looking for the Patent or application, I wanted to see how the patent was written for protection. It took me about 20 minutes to locate the application. I read the application and looked at the drawings then decided to go snoop around in the USPTO Public Pair file to see what kind of fight the inventor was having with the patent examiner.
After looking at the file I figured out its waiting to be examined and decided I will check back later to see how many hoops the examiner has the inventor jump though to keep the claims.
Two days after looking at the Patent Pair file I woke up late one night from a deep sleep thinking the system the inventor and company have was going to damage the power tool they suggest it to be used in. The power tools they suggest the accessory tools work in just aren’t designed to hold up without breaking down the motor shaft. I knew of an application that could be used with another power tool that would never break down, the application would actually be perfect but a tool holder would need to be designed to accept the inventor/company’s tool line. I knew how to do that and finished the concept in a couple days. I did all my product, patent, prior art due diligence finding nothing like it in the industry and figured I wouldn’t, due to the company’s tool line was totally new to the industry so there wasn’t a need for it to be developed since they didn’t suggest using their tools in the power tool I was.
Know that I have my tool holder developed I decided to investigate the inventor/company’s tool line some more. After digging into start to finish I found out the inventor filed for a provisional patent application on 6/28/2008. One year later he filed for the non-provisional application on 6/27/2008 and waiting for the application to be examined.
As I dug into the inventor and his invention I found out he had a booth at the International Hardware Show in Vegas in 2008 and had great response on his product line and actually one some best of show awards and major retailers wanted his product. Something sparked in my head making me research to see when the 2008 show was.
After researching the 2008 show I found the dates were 5/6-8/2008 when the show was open and realized the inventor’s public disclosure date was at least 5/6/2008 and had reason to believe it might even be before that. After looking at the public disclosure date, provisional application, and the non-provisional date I knew the inventor had really screwed up or was guided the wrong way by someone. Wow he had a paper trail on the internet that was easy to follow and there was no way to go back and modify the dates. All I could do was shake my head and say wow how the hell could this happen. Look at the dates below.
May 6-8 2008 2008 International Hardware Show (Minimum Public Disclosure Date)
June 28th 2008 Provisional Patent Application (3 weeks after Public Disclosure)
June 27th 2009 Non-Provisional Application ( 1 yr & 3 weeks after public disclosure)
If the dates are correct the inventor’s non-provisional application should be considered null and void if challenged because it was filed for 3 weeks late from the disclosure date of 5/6/2008. I decided to go back on the internet to verify the dates and they were correct. To my surprise I found articles written by news papers and magazines that indicated the inventor was making the tools on his own in his garage in 2007 selling them to the public. Now we know the date of public disclosure was in 2007, and could really be considered null and void if challenged.
I did find info that indicated the inventor got a good chunk of $$$ from the company that bought his technology and get royalties from the product sold. Initially my impression was the inventor sold 100% of the invention.
My question is.
1.What are the chances the USPTO examiner will run up on the public disclosure information during their research?
2.How do I approach this company with my new design for a license deal.
3.Did the inventor & company know the non-provisional application disclosure date was past the 1yr cutoff date.
4.Since the invention was past the 1 yr cut off disclosure date wouldn’t the invention be free game for anyone to manufacture and sell without any legal trouble that could come from the inventor/company.
This looks like a great invention idea gone wrong to me.
Any thoughts.
Re: Has a Great Invention Idea Gone Wrong ?
by Roger Brown » Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:27 am
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Roger Brown - Black Belt
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Gizmo,
I am not a patent lawyer so this is not legal advice, just my opinion. I know you do a great job with patent searches I have never disputed that, but I am not sure about the dates and what you are stating.
My understanding is that once a product is disclosed to the public you have 12 months to file a provisional patent application and a year from that date to file a full patent. So based on the dates you provided he filed a Provisional Patent Application (3 weeks after Public Disclosure) June 28th 2008, which is well within the one year time limit and filed a Non-Provisional Application June 27th 2009 (one day before the year deadline)
So he is not past due. The 3 weeks of the public disclosure is not taken into account since the time clock starts at date of the Provisional Patent Application. If he had waited until May 7th 2009 before he filed the provisional patent application he would have been past the filing deadline and your scenario might fall into place. It would still be up to the examiner.
Lets say you are right and they missed the filing dates. Would the Inventor lose everything the company gave him up to that point and have to pay it back? Would the lawyers that missed this be liable for damages to the company? Would the company, lawyers and Inventor be looking for you and would they have any legal recourse to file suit against you for interfering in their business dealing?
I am not a patent lawyer so this is not legal advice, just my opinion. I know you do a great job with patent searches I have never disputed that, but I am not sure about the dates and what you are stating.
My understanding is that once a product is disclosed to the public you have 12 months to file a provisional patent application and a year from that date to file a full patent. So based on the dates you provided he filed a Provisional Patent Application (3 weeks after Public Disclosure) June 28th 2008, which is well within the one year time limit and filed a Non-Provisional Application June 27th 2009 (one day before the year deadline)
So he is not past due. The 3 weeks of the public disclosure is not taken into account since the time clock starts at date of the Provisional Patent Application. If he had waited until May 7th 2009 before he filed the provisional patent application he would have been past the filing deadline and your scenario might fall into place. It would still be up to the examiner.
Lets say you are right and they missed the filing dates. Would the Inventor lose everything the company gave him up to that point and have to pay it back? Would the lawyers that missed this be liable for damages to the company? Would the company, lawyers and Inventor be looking for you and would they have any legal recourse to file suit against you for interfering in their business dealing?
Come visit my sites at http://www.RogerBrown.net
or http://www.looking2license.com
I have gotten 9 products licensed spending less than $100 on each, you can too.
or http://www.looking2license.com
I have gotten 9 products licensed spending less than $100 on each, you can too.
Re: Has a Great Invention Idea Gone Wrong ?
by ATtheLake » Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:41 am
- ATtheLake
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I think I know who you are referring to in your post! Inventors name Justin? I grew up down the street from a guy that sold his idea that similar to your story. If it is the same story this guy is supposedly pretty well of now and as far as I know his uncle helped finance the project to make it happen. He is a huge local real estate developer in my neck of the woods
Re: Has a Great Invention Idea Gone Wrong ?
by Gizmo » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:14 am
- Gizmo
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ATtheLake wrote:I think I know who you are referring to in your post! Inventors name Justin? I grew up down the street from a guy that sold his idea that similar to your story. If it is the same story this guy is supposedly pretty well of now and as far as I know his uncle helped finance the project to make it happen. He is a huge local real estate developer in my neck of the woods
Lake,,,,,, it not the same person.
Re: Has a Great Invention Idea Gone Wrong ?
by Gizmo » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:57 am
- Gizmo
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Roger Brown wrote:Gizmo,My understanding is that once a product is disclosed to the public you have 12 months to file a provisional patent application and a year from that date to file a full patent. So based on the dates you provided he filed a Provisional Patent Application (3 weeks after Public Disclosure) June 28th 2008, which is well within the one year time limit and filed a Non-Provisional Application June 27th 2009 (one day before the year deadline)
So he is not past due. The 3 weeks of the public disclosure is not taken into account since the time clock starts at date of the Provisional Patent Application. If he had waited until May 7th 2009 before he filed the provisional patent application he would have been past the filing deadline and your scenario might fall into place. It would still be up to the examiner.
Yes your right Roger if you wrote the info.
I talked to the USPTO in great detail this morning about the subject. Heres the deal though,Ive dug up info that indicates the product was being made in the inventors garage and sold in 2006. The disclosure date starts from that point.Lets say you are right and they missed the filing dates. Would the Inventor lose everything the company gave him up to that point and have to pay it back? Would the lawyers that missed this be liable for damages to the company? Would the company, lawyers and Inventor be looking for you and would they have any legal recourse to file suit against you for interfering in their business dealing?
It all depends on what was in the contract if the inventor has to pay the money back. Im not sure if the lawyers would be liable or really care at this point. Your last question makes me laugh though.Anyone can challenge a patent, application,or disclosure dates without interfering in business practice (M.R.).
Re: Has a Great Invention Idea Gone Wrong ?
by Roger Brown » Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:13 pm
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Gizmo, Not sure what the statement " If you wrote the info" means. Who else would write it? So, now that you have brought this up to the USPTO about the 2006 disclosure what is their next action, if any?
You wrote the disclosure was in 2007 in a post above and 2006 in this previous one. Which one was it?
You wrote the disclosure was in 2007 in a post above and 2006 in this previous one. Which one was it?
Come visit my sites at http://www.RogerBrown.net
or http://www.looking2license.com
I have gotten 9 products licensed spending less than $100 on each, you can too.
or http://www.looking2license.com
I have gotten 9 products licensed spending less than $100 on each, you can too.
Re: Has a Great Invention Idea Gone Wrong ?
by Gizmo » Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:27 pm
- Gizmo
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- Posts: 430
- Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:40 am
- Location: Florida
Roger Brown wrote:Gizmo, Not sure what the statement " If you wrote the info" means. Who else would write it? So, now that you have brought this up to the USPTO about the 2006 disclosure what is their next action, if any?
You wrote the disclosure was in 2007 in a post above and 2006 in this previous one. Which one was it?
Roger,When I talked to the USPTO today I gave them a scererio with dates. They didnt have a clue what the application number.or who the inventor was. After digging into the info more I figured out the yr was 2006.
I have protection on my idea so Im not worried about it to much. One thing I did figure out from all this is that once you disclose your invention you can want the 1 yr to file for a Provisional and have 2 yrs of protection until the need to file for a non-provisional. Ive never heard of that before,something just doesnt seem right with it.
Re: Has a Great Invention Idea Gone Wrong ?
by Roger Brown » Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:28 am
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So, whre are you now with the project? Are contacting the company with your idea?
Come visit my sites at http://www.RogerBrown.net
or http://www.looking2license.com
I have gotten 9 products licensed spending less than $100 on each, you can too.
or http://www.looking2license.com
I have gotten 9 products licensed spending less than $100 on each, you can too.
Re: Has a Great Invention Idea Gone Wrong ?
by Gizmo » Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:38 pm
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Roger,
Thats private info...dont you think ????
Thats private info...dont you think ????
Re: Has a Great Invention Idea Gone Wrong ?
by Roger Brown » Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:43 pm
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Roger Brown - Black Belt
- Posts: 1208
- Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:53 pm
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That is up to you. Plenty of us post on our progress. Did not mean to offend if I did.
Come visit my sites at http://www.RogerBrown.net
or http://www.looking2license.com
I have gotten 9 products licensed spending less than $100 on each, you can too.
or http://www.looking2license.com
I have gotten 9 products licensed spending less than $100 on each, you can too.
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