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Virtual Reality rethinked
by Sandydude » Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:57 am
- Sandydude
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This is just something that popped into my head a few month ago, I wiil try to explain it shortly.
this is just a sketch nothing more yet.
Recently I have started to think about a virtual reality device and with it all the different parts of it. It came to me as I was watching Ironman the other night. I tried to understand how his suit works, because sure he has protection and weaponry and everything. but how can he be stronger with just a suit on him, after thinking some more, I realized that his suit has little powered joints that react to the way that he’s moving and amplify it. so when he moves his arm up to lift a heavy object, the joints on his hands lock and even push along his movment. but this is just the start, he has locking joints at his back and legs to give him the stability when lifting such an object, and also prevent spine injury to him. That got me thinking, if such a suit can be made why not do it the other way around and this is where it gets interesting.
To start explaining this let’s first try to understand what reality is, for the most part, our reality is percived through our senses. Of course we can trick our senses by emitting sound and displaying images, but the most crucial part we have not dealt with is touch and more so, gravity. and this is where the Ironman suit can come handy. If we build such a suit we can do just the opposite then what I explained earlier, make it work against us to mimic gravity for instance. when we pick an object in real life it can be broken to a couple of basic things:
first of is that we can get our fingers inside the matter, or if you think of it in another way, we can’t close our fingers further. that can be done with such powered joints, make the stop at a certine point, each finger depending on the size and shape of the object. So by doing this we actually mimiced the first part, we are actually holding an object.
The next part is the actual weight of the object, so try this example, all it is basically is that gravity is trying to pull our hands down. And it’s doing this through our joints trying to bend downwards, so we can make it work for us with the Ironman suit. We just have to make the suit’s joints work against us to a degree decided by the weight of the object, thus creating the illusion of weight and gravity. Though we have to go full scale all the way to our back and legs trying to turn depending on the the weight, and this is all to mimic entirely the effects of gravity.
The last part in this is our dodgy touch sense, it is hard to mimic it to a degree that even a breath of air can be felt. I came up with a way, design a suit with a tight fabric around our body and embed in it tiny electrical discharges, that will sent small jolts to our body. And I mean SMALL jolts just enough to mimic a soft touch and acordingly textures and every thing. Like the edge of a cube will send jolts to the middle of our fingertip acording to the edge of the cube, and combining with the finger joints will create that illussion. As for nails, place a tiny wheel at the edge of the nail’s tip, and have it flip lightly at our nail acording to texture.And if needed press againts our nail to make the feeling real.
So if you think of the possibilities they’re endless, combined with state of the art display glasses and headphones, we can actually mimic life. for instance underwater can be achived with the joints moving sluggishly and the fabric giving us a feeling that runs through our body. As I said the possibilities are endless and it’s just the matter of putting all those ideas into actions and making it real. And yes I realize it can all be achived through nueral implants but for me it’s going for the extreme.
this is just a sketch nothing more yet.
Recently I have started to think about a virtual reality device and with it all the different parts of it. It came to me as I was watching Ironman the other night. I tried to understand how his suit works, because sure he has protection and weaponry and everything. but how can he be stronger with just a suit on him, after thinking some more, I realized that his suit has little powered joints that react to the way that he’s moving and amplify it. so when he moves his arm up to lift a heavy object, the joints on his hands lock and even push along his movment. but this is just the start, he has locking joints at his back and legs to give him the stability when lifting such an object, and also prevent spine injury to him. That got me thinking, if such a suit can be made why not do it the other way around and this is where it gets interesting.
To start explaining this let’s first try to understand what reality is, for the most part, our reality is percived through our senses. Of course we can trick our senses by emitting sound and displaying images, but the most crucial part we have not dealt with is touch and more so, gravity. and this is where the Ironman suit can come handy. If we build such a suit we can do just the opposite then what I explained earlier, make it work against us to mimic gravity for instance. when we pick an object in real life it can be broken to a couple of basic things:
first of is that we can get our fingers inside the matter, or if you think of it in another way, we can’t close our fingers further. that can be done with such powered joints, make the stop at a certine point, each finger depending on the size and shape of the object. So by doing this we actually mimiced the first part, we are actually holding an object.
The next part is the actual weight of the object, so try this example, all it is basically is that gravity is trying to pull our hands down. And it’s doing this through our joints trying to bend downwards, so we can make it work for us with the Ironman suit. We just have to make the suit’s joints work against us to a degree decided by the weight of the object, thus creating the illusion of weight and gravity. Though we have to go full scale all the way to our back and legs trying to turn depending on the the weight, and this is all to mimic entirely the effects of gravity.
The last part in this is our dodgy touch sense, it is hard to mimic it to a degree that even a breath of air can be felt. I came up with a way, design a suit with a tight fabric around our body and embed in it tiny electrical discharges, that will sent small jolts to our body. And I mean SMALL jolts just enough to mimic a soft touch and acordingly textures and every thing. Like the edge of a cube will send jolts to the middle of our fingertip acording to the edge of the cube, and combining with the finger joints will create that illussion. As for nails, place a tiny wheel at the edge of the nail’s tip, and have it flip lightly at our nail acording to texture.And if needed press againts our nail to make the feeling real.
So if you think of the possibilities they’re endless, combined with state of the art display glasses and headphones, we can actually mimic life. for instance underwater can be achived with the joints moving sluggishly and the fabric giving us a feeling that runs through our body. As I said the possibilities are endless and it’s just the matter of putting all those ideas into actions and making it real. And yes I realize it can all be achived through nueral implants but for me it’s going for the extreme.
Re: Virtual Reality rethinked
by Scrupulous » Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:09 am
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Scrupulous - Black Belt
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Sandydude wrote:This is just something that popped into my head a few month ago, I wiil try to explain it shortly.
this is just a sketch nothing more yet.
Recently I have started to think about a virtual reality device and with it all the different parts of it. It came to me as I was watching Ironman the other night. I tried to understand how his suit works, because sure he has protection and weaponry and everything. but how can he be stronger with just a suit on him, after thinking some more, I realized that his suit has little powered joints that react to the way that he’s moving and amplify it. so when he moves his arm up to lift a heavy object, the joints on his hands lock and even push along his movment. but this is just the start, he has locking joints at his back and legs to give him the stability when lifting such an object, and also prevent spine injury to him. That got me thinking, if such a suit can be made why not do it the other way around and this is where it gets interesting.
To start explaining this let’s first try to understand what reality is, for the most part, our reality is percived through our senses. Of course we can trick our senses by emitting sound and displaying images, but the most crucial part we have not dealt with is touch and more so, gravity. and this is where the Ironman suit can come handy. If we build such a suit we can do just the opposite then what I explained earlier, make it work against us to mimic gravity for instance. when we pick an object in real life it can be broken to a couple of basic things:
first of is that we can get our fingers inside the matter, or if you think of it in another way, we can’t close our fingers further. that can be done with such powered joints, make the stop at a certine point, each finger depending on the size and shape of the object. So by doing this we actually mimiced the first part, we are actually holding an object.
The next part is the actual weight of the object, so try this example, all it is basically is that gravity is trying to pull our hands down. And it’s doing this through our joints trying to bend downwards, so we can make it work for us with the Ironman suit. We just have to make the suit’s joints work against us to a degree decided by the weight of the object, thus creating the illusion of weight and gravity. Though we have to go full scale all the way to our back and legs trying to turn depending on the the weight, and this is all to mimic entirely the effects of gravity.
The last part in this is our dodgy touch sense, it is hard to mimic it to a degree that even a breath of air can be felt. I came up with a way, design a suit with a tight fabric around our body and embed in it tiny electrical discharges, that will sent small jolts to our body. And I mean SMALL jolts just enough to mimic a soft touch and acordingly textures and every thing. Like the edge of a cube will send jolts to the middle of our fingertip acording to the edge of the cube, and combining with the finger joints will create that illussion. As for nails, place a tiny wheel at the edge of the nail’s tip, and have it flip lightly at our nail acording to texture.And if needed press againts our nail to make the feeling real.
So if you think of the possibilities they’re endless, combined with state of the art display glasses and headphones, we can actually mimic life. for instance underwater can be achived with the joints moving sluggishly and the fabric giving us a feeling that runs through our body. As I said the possibilities are endless and it’s just the matter of putting all those ideas into actions and making it real. And yes I realize it can all be achived through nueral implants but for me it’s going for the extreme.
That's awesome. And, thanks for the inspiration.
In fact, every bit of that seems to be within the realm of today's technology.
I've always wondered if there was a way to simulate acceleration on the human body, as well. You may have just enabled that. Hey, send me a PM with your phone number, if you could.
Kudos, Sandydude.
________________
I'm Ken Campbell, a registered US patent practitioner at the Affordable Patent Serviceâ„¢.
As a forum moderator, though, any input I provide should be considered general information, and not legal advice. The ideas I express are not necessarily the opinions of InventorSpot.com or its affiliates. In general, any action taken as a result of information, analysis, or advice from any forum members on this site is ultimately the user's responsibility.
I'm Ken Campbell, a registered US patent practitioner at the Affordable Patent Serviceâ„¢.
As a forum moderator, though, any input I provide should be considered general information, and not legal advice. The ideas I express are not necessarily the opinions of InventorSpot.com or its affiliates. In general, any action taken as a result of information, analysis, or advice from any forum members on this site is ultimately the user's responsibility.
Re: Virtual Reality rethinked
by JoeWaisman » Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:19 am
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JoeWaisman - Green Belt
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Quite an interesting idea.
In auto, rollercoaster, & plane simulators the foundation is tilted to simulate acceleration. I think this works well for those situations because people are sitting. It would be less effective (but still partially so?) if people were standing. We are, after all, conditioned to detect changes in gradient via feedback from our feet. Hmmm...I have the sudden urge to watch Lanwmower Man.
In auto, rollercoaster, & plane simulators the foundation is tilted to simulate acceleration. I think this works well for those situations because people are sitting. It would be less effective (but still partially so?) if people were standing. We are, after all, conditioned to detect changes in gradient via feedback from our feet. Hmmm...I have the sudden urge to watch Lanwmower Man.
___________________________________________
"The horse is here to stay but the automobile is only a novelty, a fad."
Fun links:
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"The horse is here to stay but the automobile is only a novelty, a fad."
Fun links:
*http://www.scribd.com/doc/441708/Bad-Predictions-About-Great-Inventions
Re: Virtual Reality rethinked
by stereo-vision » Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:12 am
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Have you seen this? Maybe it could be added to your idea. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNEOI7bY ... re=related
Re: Virtual Reality rethinked
by Scrupulous » Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:26 pm
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Yeah, I think that's what Sandydude is going off of...
I can see a suit like that to do what he's thinking, or maybe a chainmaille outfit that has separate circuits wired throughout. It somehow also kinda makes me think of those toys with the grid of sliding pins that let you make impressions of your nose and stuff.
One of the challenges I think is to generate the sense of real friction where the virtual objects touch the skin, and unify those actuators with the suit, so that the user feels the force of resistance at the "surface" of the virtual object.
No small task. But hey, we're talking about a trillion dollar industry, right?
I can see a suit like that to do what he's thinking, or maybe a chainmaille outfit that has separate circuits wired throughout. It somehow also kinda makes me think of those toys with the grid of sliding pins that let you make impressions of your nose and stuff.
One of the challenges I think is to generate the sense of real friction where the virtual objects touch the skin, and unify those actuators with the suit, so that the user feels the force of resistance at the "surface" of the virtual object.
No small task. But hey, we're talking about a trillion dollar industry, right?
________________
I'm Ken Campbell, a registered US patent practitioner at the Affordable Patent Serviceâ„¢.
As a forum moderator, though, any input I provide should be considered general information, and not legal advice. The ideas I express are not necessarily the opinions of InventorSpot.com or its affiliates. In general, any action taken as a result of information, analysis, or advice from any forum members on this site is ultimately the user's responsibility.
I'm Ken Campbell, a registered US patent practitioner at the Affordable Patent Serviceâ„¢.
As a forum moderator, though, any input I provide should be considered general information, and not legal advice. The ideas I express are not necessarily the opinions of InventorSpot.com or its affiliates. In general, any action taken as a result of information, analysis, or advice from any forum members on this site is ultimately the user's responsibility.
Re: Virtual Reality rethinked
by Scrupulous » Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:33 pm
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JoeWaisman wrote:Quite an interesting idea.
In auto, rollercoaster, & plane simulators the foundation is tilted to simulate acceleration. I think this works well for those situations because people are sitting. It would be less effective (but still partially so?) if people were standing. We are, after all, conditioned to detect changes in gradient via feedback from our feet. Hmmm...I have the sudden urge to watch Lanwmower Man.
Ha, I can't remember all of that movie...
Yeah, those ride simulators are cool, but they can only mimic acceleration for short durations at a time...then they have to be inactive as the carriage slowly returns to a neutral position.
With a suit like this, you can have any number of consecutive accelerations/decelerations, in any order, in any combination, and in any period of time. Imagine a racing simulator where another driver spins you off of a long fast hairpin turn, and you 'feel' every bit of it...Wow, I want one!
________________
I'm Ken Campbell, a registered US patent practitioner at the Affordable Patent Serviceâ„¢.
As a forum moderator, though, any input I provide should be considered general information, and not legal advice. The ideas I express are not necessarily the opinions of InventorSpot.com or its affiliates. In general, any action taken as a result of information, analysis, or advice from any forum members on this site is ultimately the user's responsibility.
I'm Ken Campbell, a registered US patent practitioner at the Affordable Patent Serviceâ„¢.
As a forum moderator, though, any input I provide should be considered general information, and not legal advice. The ideas I express are not necessarily the opinions of InventorSpot.com or its affiliates. In general, any action taken as a result of information, analysis, or advice from any forum members on this site is ultimately the user's responsibility.
Re: Virtual Reality rethinked
by Sandydude » Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:40 pm
- Sandydude
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Thanks for the interest guys.
it's nice to see people understanding what I was aiming at.
The exoskeleton is exactly what I was talking about, a machine-based skeletal framework amplifing our movments or the other way around.
the rollercoaster idea is great!! never thought about it but it can actually work.
it would be nice to actually feel scared when the carrier drops down.
I also got into thinking about actual walking, because my initial idea was around a virtual world.
Now here i got stuck, we can either do it in a huge place and use GPS (not ideal at all but good for starters)
or we can do it like those motor free treadmills which offer resistance, but 360.
This is the part i'm trying to figure out. a 360 degree treadmill.
If you have any ideas it would be nice.
it's nice to see people understanding what I was aiming at.
The exoskeleton is exactly what I was talking about, a machine-based skeletal framework amplifing our movments or the other way around.
the rollercoaster idea is great!! never thought about it but it can actually work.
it would be nice to actually feel scared when the carrier drops down.
I also got into thinking about actual walking, because my initial idea was around a virtual world.
Now here i got stuck, we can either do it in a huge place and use GPS (not ideal at all but good for starters)
or we can do it like those motor free treadmills which offer resistance, but 360.
This is the part i'm trying to figure out. a 360 degree treadmill.
If you have any ideas it would be nice.
Re: Virtual Reality rethinked
by Sandydude » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:03 pm
- Sandydude
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- Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:28 pm
As for friction, it's just a combination of all the stuff I talked about.
you try to rub an object for instance, the suit works slightly against our movement. and even stop it entirely at points, combined with the touch sense simulator.
I just now came up with an idea for walking, still raw but could work.
have the user suspended in the air and thus he can virtually move yet takes no space.
and have the exoskeleton aiding us to move, due to the difficulty of moving in mid air.
have it configured to an amplifying starting point and work it's way down from there for the mimicking part.
I haven't yet figured how to turn by it would come in time, I have to take a closer look at how we walk, turn and navigate our world for this one.
you try to rub an object for instance, the suit works slightly against our movement. and even stop it entirely at points, combined with the touch sense simulator.
I just now came up with an idea for walking, still raw but could work.
have the user suspended in the air and thus he can virtually move yet takes no space.
and have the exoskeleton aiding us to move, due to the difficulty of moving in mid air.
have it configured to an amplifying starting point and work it's way down from there for the mimicking part.
I haven't yet figured how to turn by it would come in time, I have to take a closer look at how we walk, turn and navigate our world for this one.
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