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Odorless and Overflow-less Toilet System
by MOPAR78 » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:08 pm
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MOPAR78 - Blue Belt
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Just got my website up, www.bettertoilet.com . Would love to have some feedback on the site and the concept of the Odorless and Overflow-less Toilet System. Thanks.
Last edited by MOPAR78 on Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
<p>
<strong>Ronald F. Pickle</strong>
</p>
<p>
<strong>Inventor of the:</strong>
</p>
<p>
<strong>Odorless and Overflowless Toilet System.</strong>
</p>
<p>
<strong>Simply a "Better Toilet"</strong>
</p>
<p>
<strong>Â </strong>
<strong>Ronald F. Pickle</strong>
</p>
<p>
<strong>Inventor of the:</strong>
</p>
<p>
<strong>Odorless and Overflowless Toilet System.</strong>
</p>
<p>
<strong>Simply a "Better Toilet"</strong>
</p>
<p>
<strong>Â </strong>
by makeworldbetter » Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:29 am
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makeworldbetter - Black Belt
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people like to see picture, photo, drawing... especially me.
I don't like to read a lot of text before I understand what I am reading.
I don't like to read a lot of text before I understand what I am reading.
by steelxenon » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:45 pm
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steelxenon - White Belt
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I'm a graphic artist/3d modeller and animator... web design, video games, etc
by MOPAR78 » Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:28 pm
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MOPAR78 - Blue Belt
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Ok, slowly updating the site and making corrections. I have some diagrams up in the "How it works section" to better explain it. Still under construction so please be patient as this is the first time I have ever created a web site on my own. Thanks! www.bettertoilet.com 
by bottleslingguy » Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:17 pm
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bottleslingguy - Black Belt
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So you have to duct/vent the outflow air through your roof? Can't it tie in with the existing plumbing? There's already a vent can't you tie into that? I noticed you have a water trap separating the outflow air from the rest of the system. How do you keep water in that trap? I don't see any way water would get to that section. Are you sure you want all this extra plumbing? Hurts to have to do all the retrofitting and modifying. I don't like the idea of putting another hole in my roof just to do something my fan system already does well. I think you are not tapping into the largest segment of the market.
upon further inspection:
Ok so you fill the water trap with the accidental overflow feature. So then the water trap relies on overflows to keep water in it. What if I don't overflow my toilet for a year? The last water that was in that trap would've been dirty. That would leave unpleasant residues in it and would become a nightmare if the fan was out of commission for a couple days.
I think this is over-invented and could prove hazardous and/or not pass plumbing inspection codes. I think the VIP is simpler and therefore superior.
upon further inspection:
Ok so you fill the water trap with the accidental overflow feature. So then the water trap relies on overflows to keep water in it. What if I don't overflow my toilet for a year? The last water that was in that trap would've been dirty. That would leave unpleasant residues in it and would become a nightmare if the fan was out of commission for a couple days.
I think this is over-invented and could prove hazardous and/or not pass plumbing inspection codes. I think the VIP is simpler and therefore superior.
by MOPAR78 » Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:53 pm
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MOPAR78 - Blue Belt
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Yes, the exhaust line could be tied into the vent line. In fact, that’s the way I had shown it on my original drawings when I had applied for the provisional patent. However, I felt that there would be the possibility of odors reentering the occupied space in the event the back draft damper failed. Also did not want to create any possible code issues due to having a positive air displacement condition. The separate line takes out all doubt. As far as an additional hole, this is not a problem as there are several roof penetrations on any given house or building already. If in doubt about the install, hire a professional to do the work.
If you would have read the site in full, you would have seen that the U.T.A.'s trap is maintained with a trap primer built into the toilet as explained in the "How it works section" on the flushing operation link. Each time the toilet is flushed a small amount of water supplied to the trap. Or in commercial applications as were the fan is likely to run in contiguous mode, a remote trap primer would be used. I will include some more information on the site referring to set up and what to do in the event of an overflow later.
As far as all that plumbing", the U.T.A. is a one piece unit therefore guaranteeing it to perform as claimed and making the install simple. The site is still under construction and I intend on having more information up so that everyone understands it better.
In renovation conation, it is recommended to let a professional do the install. New construction would be simpler of course. A product such as the VIP would be a simpler install. Not product bashing here but if you feel that any given product that has one feature (odor control) and not two (odor and overflow control) is "superior", that is your opinion and I can certainly appreciate it. I am familiar with the local codes in Ga. and feel that there are no issues.
Thank you for your comments as they help me to better design my site so that everyone understands it better. As most inventors probably realize, it’s hard to get other to see what’s in your thoughts sometimes.
If you would have read the site in full, you would have seen that the U.T.A.'s trap is maintained with a trap primer built into the toilet as explained in the "How it works section" on the flushing operation link. Each time the toilet is flushed a small amount of water supplied to the trap. Or in commercial applications as were the fan is likely to run in contiguous mode, a remote trap primer would be used. I will include some more information on the site referring to set up and what to do in the event of an overflow later.
As far as all that plumbing", the U.T.A. is a one piece unit therefore guaranteeing it to perform as claimed and making the install simple. The site is still under construction and I intend on having more information up so that everyone understands it better.
In renovation conation, it is recommended to let a professional do the install. New construction would be simpler of course. A product such as the VIP would be a simpler install. Not product bashing here but if you feel that any given product that has one feature (odor control) and not two (odor and overflow control) is "superior", that is your opinion and I can certainly appreciate it. I am familiar with the local codes in Ga. and feel that there are no issues.
Thank you for your comments as they help me to better design my site so that everyone understands it better. As most inventors probably realize, it’s hard to get other to see what’s in your thoughts sometimes.
by bottleslingguy » Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:00 am
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bottleslingguy - Black Belt
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Thanks for the answers. I'm just being a Devil's Advocate right now ( was being something else earlier).
Can the overflow system clog? How do you unclog it? Can the passageways become full of tp and other things? How would I get a snake down to the overflow trap? Another thing I'm suspicious about concerning the overflow design. I can't tell exactly how you've done it (I'll have to check back at the site), but when the bowl overfills does the water and debris have to go "up" over a lip edge or into holes under the rim? Going up into holes under the rim is expecting the water to do things it doesn't like to do. The holes around the rim would have to be on the sides of the bowl just like a sink overflow port.
I think the "overflow" solution is where you are over-inventing this. Of course in my opinion anything that requires more parts/plumbing, wires, switches, sensors is trying to reinvent the wheel. Some inventions are just fine the way they are (the basic toilet) even with the inherent problems associated with them such as being clogged or odoriferous. So a product that doesn't ask for too many changes in the original set-up would be my choice.
Again I think your market is narrowing to a point where your system will cost more than people will pay for you to make a profit. (rhetorically) How do your numbers work out? Do you know how much it would cost to manufacture the utc component and will what once cost $150 now cost $299? With today's low flush toilets overflows aren't a big deal unless the flush valve is held open somehow (maybe that would be a good place to invent something?).
There is this thing called Confirmational Bias that all inventors experience at one point or another during the process. It's easy to get caught up in the innovation process and problem solve what one might perceive as a problem worth solving. But the hard part we all like to avoid is doing the other very important parts of bringing a product to market. Finding out not only how much parts and manufacturing cost but the more esoteric things like how much would contractors pay for this, existing homeowners, hotels, etc? Is it enough of a problem how much will they be willing to pay? How many would you have to sell at how much to make how much profit? Is it worth the investment in a patent if there are many other ways to do the same thing or better? A patent doesn't mean yours is better and so on. Have you considered all these bases? Again that's rhetorical.
Don't mean to sound like a jerk, just working you through the process. It's good exercise for the real world.
Can the overflow system clog? How do you unclog it? Can the passageways become full of tp and other things? How would I get a snake down to the overflow trap? Another thing I'm suspicious about concerning the overflow design. I can't tell exactly how you've done it (I'll have to check back at the site), but when the bowl overfills does the water and debris have to go "up" over a lip edge or into holes under the rim? Going up into holes under the rim is expecting the water to do things it doesn't like to do. The holes around the rim would have to be on the sides of the bowl just like a sink overflow port.
I think the "overflow" solution is where you are over-inventing this. Of course in my opinion anything that requires more parts/plumbing, wires, switches, sensors is trying to reinvent the wheel. Some inventions are just fine the way they are (the basic toilet) even with the inherent problems associated with them such as being clogged or odoriferous. So a product that doesn't ask for too many changes in the original set-up would be my choice.
Again I think your market is narrowing to a point where your system will cost more than people will pay for you to make a profit. (rhetorically) How do your numbers work out? Do you know how much it would cost to manufacture the utc component and will what once cost $150 now cost $299? With today's low flush toilets overflows aren't a big deal unless the flush valve is held open somehow (maybe that would be a good place to invent something?).
There is this thing called Confirmational Bias that all inventors experience at one point or another during the process. It's easy to get caught up in the innovation process and problem solve what one might perceive as a problem worth solving. But the hard part we all like to avoid is doing the other very important parts of bringing a product to market. Finding out not only how much parts and manufacturing cost but the more esoteric things like how much would contractors pay for this, existing homeowners, hotels, etc? Is it enough of a problem how much will they be willing to pay? How many would you have to sell at how much to make how much profit? Is it worth the investment in a patent if there are many other ways to do the same thing or better? A patent doesn't mean yours is better and so on. Have you considered all these bases? Again that's rhetorical.
Don't mean to sound like a jerk, just working you through the process. It's good exercise for the real world.
by MOPAR78 » Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:12 am
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MOPAR78 - Blue Belt
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Thanks again for your reply, I welcome all comments and appriciate them as well!
It is designed to handle solids as with an actual overflow. Original designs had a plurality of holes/vents, but after research, I found out it would be more effective and easier to clean with a continuous vent as shown. The exit port as well as the UTA's trap is size large enough to handle the solids temporarily until the toilet can become unclogged. Remember this feature is designed to control overflows and not a fix for clogged toilets.
During the first time set up and in the event of an overflow the procedures are as such. Upon first time use, the main trap in the toilet bowl would be blocked and the toilet would be flushed several times in order to first time prime the UTA's trap and test prove that the overflow function was performing properly. In a overflow condition, the toilet would be unclogged, cleaned, and then once again the toilet bowls trap would be blocked and the toilet would be flushed several time in order to cleans the UTA's of un-sanitized water. Under both circumstances, it would be suggested that on the final flush, add your choice of cleaner therefore adding "scented" water to the UTA's trap thus emitting a cleaner smell from the bowl when the fan is off. Typically on today’s toilet, after cleaning, the scented cleaner is "flushed down the drain" after its following use.
The overflow feature is what separates this product from other Odorless toilets that I have research at the USTPO. The attempt to remove odor at the toilet, has quite a few patent and patent pending on the art. If you were to research this you would find out as I have, my system is by far less complicated, requires less maintenance, can be fully automatic and has the extra feature of overflow protection. Some prior art that I researched would actually quite working in the event of an overflow.
My market target new construction as well as renovation work. My research also found that in 2005, the US alone sold over 20 million new toilets and keeps on growing. That markets just fine with me. Thanks again for your comments.
It is designed to handle solids as with an actual overflow. Original designs had a plurality of holes/vents, but after research, I found out it would be more effective and easier to clean with a continuous vent as shown. The exit port as well as the UTA's trap is size large enough to handle the solids temporarily until the toilet can become unclogged. Remember this feature is designed to control overflows and not a fix for clogged toilets.
During the first time set up and in the event of an overflow the procedures are as such. Upon first time use, the main trap in the toilet bowl would be blocked and the toilet would be flushed several times in order to first time prime the UTA's trap and test prove that the overflow function was performing properly. In a overflow condition, the toilet would be unclogged, cleaned, and then once again the toilet bowls trap would be blocked and the toilet would be flushed several time in order to cleans the UTA's of un-sanitized water. Under both circumstances, it would be suggested that on the final flush, add your choice of cleaner therefore adding "scented" water to the UTA's trap thus emitting a cleaner smell from the bowl when the fan is off. Typically on today’s toilet, after cleaning, the scented cleaner is "flushed down the drain" after its following use.
The overflow feature is what separates this product from other Odorless toilets that I have research at the USTPO. The attempt to remove odor at the toilet, has quite a few patent and patent pending on the art. If you were to research this you would find out as I have, my system is by far less complicated, requires less maintenance, can be fully automatic and has the extra feature of overflow protection. Some prior art that I researched would actually quite working in the event of an overflow.
My market target new construction as well as renovation work. My research also found that in 2005, the US alone sold over 20 million new toilets and keeps on growing. That markets just fine with me. Thanks again for your comments.