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by AmericanCynic » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:35 pm
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bottleslingguy wrote:"You can't make blanket statements like all they want is wackos when the winners along the way are anything but."
Why didn't you wait for me to answer that first question before you made such a strawman statement? Aren't you getting a little ahead of yourself? Besides, you never clarified what you were talking about when you mentioned, "This is true only in the auditions.". You quoted four... well one was sort of a run-on sentence, so we'll call it five sentences. You're twisting my words to suit your apparent need to argue.
Not at all. You made your point abundantly clear in the paragraph I quoted and I addressed only that point.
"But if you're not even willing to show up for the possibility of winning, it's quite possible you don't have the dedication to go through the entire invention process."
Talk about a blanket statement.
Is it? So you're saying it's impossible that people who don't show up aren't determined?
"Many an invention has shrivelled on the vine simply because the inventor was half-hearted and never took the steps needed to bring it to market, or was too scared to risk anything. "
Are you referring to the 98% of inventions sitting idle in the USPTO? If you are, then all they have to do is go on AI season 3, right?
No, I'm referring to the 99% of inventions that never even make it to the USPTO. Remember the old man with Mr. Bright Eyes? If he'd done something with it 40 years ago, he might have had a chance. But he just let it sit until season 2 of AI.
"Has anyone gotten any angel financing here? "
A bit impatient, aren't we?
Look, if you're going to call this site the best thing since sliced bread, then you'd better have some results to back it up with. (No offense, Michelle.) Do you really think angels are a dime a dozen and that everyone can get one? They're extremely rare and unlikely to be combing through a site like this looking for the next big invention. Venture capitalists won't come here, either, because they don't finance startups. Established companies ready to expand, which is what VCs actually finance (after due diligence) wouldn't come to Inventorspot.
"I doubt anyone gotten anything more than useful feedback from other users on this site. "
Should I correct your grammar, or stick to the argument??? Grammar??? Argument??? Grammar??? Argument???
Oh, no! I made a typo! The world is coming to an end! "Anyone has" or "anyone's," okay?
"Are you, in fact, saying it was a bad idea for Janusz to audition for the program last year?"
Uhhh, no. Not for Janusz. It was a bad idea for the show to pick him as a finalist and get the American voters' hopes up that his was a viable, mass marketable invention. Where is it? Why is it not in stores by now? Such a magnificent piece of technological gadgetry mentored by that innovation mover and shaker himself H3. You're rushing to judgement as to why this site has produced no success stories as of yet, so why are you giving the show so much leeway? Especially with the millions of viewers and stratospheric budget in comparison to the one at ISpot.
Irrespective of what you think of his invention, you cannot deny that AI helped him. And that's the point. You make it sound like it's absolutely worthless to go there and everyone should boycott the auditions and I just logically point out that at least 12 people would laugh at you if you tell them they shouldn't have gone. Even 5rocks, who didn't make it into the final 12, says he was glad he was in it.
"12 people received a total of $600,000 to develop their inventions. Any of those twelve would tell you that it was worth it."
I'm sure they would. And beyond that, what?
Beyond that, their inventions may make it to market. Jodi's Headliner is coming to market. Hasbro offered to market the Word Ace, whereas nobody would talk to Edward before. Pretty much every one of the finalists said they had hit roadblocks, either financial or otherwise. Where else could they have gotten $50,000?
"Beyond that, all of them and even others who didn't make it into the semifinals received free nationwide publicity they could never have afforded on their own."
Oh, ok. That sounds reasonable, but what's it got to do with all the 10K others who didn't get anything? Sounds like they could've had maybe one hundred people audition, 80% could've been whacko fodder, 10% could've had good inventions but weren't tv friendly and 10% could've been just right. The rest of the 9,900 people could come here and save themselves a bunch of frustration and embarassment and still show how serious they are about their inventions.
And again, what does it get them to come here? A little pat on the back from other users? Where's the payoff? I don't know -- it seems almost like you're embittered by Doug Hall's comments against you last year. You do know that this site used to be called AmericanInventorSpot.com? A big part of the site is its connection to AI, a sizeable portion of its visitors likely brought here after Googling for American Inventor. And here you are trying to get AI shut down. I don't think Michelle would be very happy if AI was gone. Is it a perfect show? No. Is it even a very good show? No. But just because you didn't get anything out of it, don't try to ruin it for others.
by bottleslingguy » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:02 pm
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You said, "But if you're not even willing to show up for the possibility of winning, it's quite possible you don't have the dedication to go through the entire invention process."
Then I said,"Talk about a blanket statement.
"
Then you said (isn't this getting ridiculous?), "Is it?"
Now I'm saying, "Yes it is."
Then you said after asking me if it was a blanket statement, "So you're saying it's impossible that people who don't show up aren't determined?" emphasizing the word "impossible" in a bold font. I am saying that that is not what I'm saying. Now I am asking you where you got the idea I think it would be impossible for the people who don't show up for the auditions to be not as determined as those who do show up because I am not implying that at all. Sure some people who have inventons are determined and some are not determined, but auditioning for the show does not, by default, imply someone is determined to succeed. If anything they're taking the easy way out.
"I'm referring to the 99% of inventions that never even make it to the USPTO. Remember the old man with Mr. Bright Eyes? If he'd done something with it 40 years ago, he might have had a chance. But he just let it sit until season 2 of AI."
So you mean to tell me you know all the details behind 100% of the 99% of inventions THAT NEVER MADE IT TO THE USPTO? Not only are you a cynic, but you also must be psychic! Or at the very least extremely busy calling people. What more do you know about Mr BrightEyes other than what you heard on tv? You are speaking in blanket generalities and/or total speculation.
"Look, if you're going to call this site the best thing since sliced bread, then you'd better have some results to back it up with."
Give it some time Speedy Gonzales. Besides, I'm speaking of this site's potential. It's only been one year. Again I will cite the winner of season 1- where's the beef? With all their money, viewers and high falutin' experts they have produced NADA. Actually the losers (and I say that with the utmost respect) will probably make out better than the first place winner.
"Do you really think angels are a dime a dozen and that everyone can get one? "
No.
"Oh, no! I made a typo!"
So then why are you so quick to jump on others for doing it and then chastize people like Scrup when they make light of others' faux pas? Wait don't answer that, I don't care.
"Irrespective of what you think of his invention, you cannot deny that AI helped him. "
You just got done asking me what I thought about Janusz auditioning for the show. I said it wasn't a bad idea for him, but a bad idea for the show to pick an impractical product as a finalist. Impractical in the sense it didn't really fit the criteria set out in the beginning of the season. Besides I didn't deny AI1 helped him, remember I said it wasn't a bad idea for him to audition? Come on man, you're just being obfuscatory. I don't mind tangling with you but this really is getting off topic and silly.
"And that's the point. You make it sound like it's absolutely worthless to go there and everyone should boycott the auditions and I just logically point out that at least 12 people would laugh at you if you tell them they shouldn't have gone. Even 5rocks, who didn't make it into the final 12, says he was glad he was in it."
Jesus Christ! Finally you get to your point, but MY whole point had to do with you saying people showed how serious they were by auditioning. You said, "Having to go in person weeds out those who aren't serious about their "inventions." " and I didn't buy it. How in the Hell did we wind up here? Oh right, you're using the "L" word... logic... rrrrrriiigghhtttt
I don't see how you got from there to here, but I'll continue. Sure 5 and Jodi are moving on with their inventions and I'm psyched for them. The funny thing is, concerning the credit you give the show for their success, is that just like Pat said, the people he met who liked his product didn't even know he was on the show.
I'm tired of this nonsense AC. I don't care, you can declare victory or whatever you find that makes you feel superior. I think your point, whatever or wherever it is, is just simply that you got to argue with someone. So I guess you win.
Oh and I misspelled invention at the beginning but just left it so you can make fun of me.
Then I said,"Talk about a blanket statement.
"
Then you said (isn't this getting ridiculous?), "Is it?"
Now I'm saying, "Yes it is."
Then you said after asking me if it was a blanket statement, "So you're saying it's impossible that people who don't show up aren't determined?" emphasizing the word "impossible" in a bold font. I am saying that that is not what I'm saying. Now I am asking you where you got the idea I think it would be impossible for the people who don't show up for the auditions to be not as determined as those who do show up because I am not implying that at all. Sure some people who have inventons are determined and some are not determined, but auditioning for the show does not, by default, imply someone is determined to succeed. If anything they're taking the easy way out.
"I'm referring to the 99% of inventions that never even make it to the USPTO. Remember the old man with Mr. Bright Eyes? If he'd done something with it 40 years ago, he might have had a chance. But he just let it sit until season 2 of AI."
So you mean to tell me you know all the details behind 100% of the 99% of inventions THAT NEVER MADE IT TO THE USPTO? Not only are you a cynic, but you also must be psychic! Or at the very least extremely busy calling people. What more do you know about Mr BrightEyes other than what you heard on tv? You are speaking in blanket generalities and/or total speculation.
"Look, if you're going to call this site the best thing since sliced bread, then you'd better have some results to back it up with."
Give it some time Speedy Gonzales. Besides, I'm speaking of this site's potential. It's only been one year. Again I will cite the winner of season 1- where's the beef? With all their money, viewers and high falutin' experts they have produced NADA. Actually the losers (and I say that with the utmost respect) will probably make out better than the first place winner.
"Do you really think angels are a dime a dozen and that everyone can get one? "
No.
"Oh, no! I made a typo!"
So then why are you so quick to jump on others for doing it and then chastize people like Scrup when they make light of others' faux pas? Wait don't answer that, I don't care.
"Irrespective of what you think of his invention, you cannot deny that AI helped him. "
You just got done asking me what I thought about Janusz auditioning for the show. I said it wasn't a bad idea for him, but a bad idea for the show to pick an impractical product as a finalist. Impractical in the sense it didn't really fit the criteria set out in the beginning of the season. Besides I didn't deny AI1 helped him, remember I said it wasn't a bad idea for him to audition? Come on man, you're just being obfuscatory. I don't mind tangling with you but this really is getting off topic and silly.
"And that's the point. You make it sound like it's absolutely worthless to go there and everyone should boycott the auditions and I just logically point out that at least 12 people would laugh at you if you tell them they shouldn't have gone. Even 5rocks, who didn't make it into the final 12, says he was glad he was in it."
Jesus Christ! Finally you get to your point, but MY whole point had to do with you saying people showed how serious they were by auditioning. You said, "Having to go in person weeds out those who aren't serious about their "inventions." " and I didn't buy it. How in the Hell did we wind up here? Oh right, you're using the "L" word... logic... rrrrrriiigghhtttt
I don't see how you got from there to here, but I'll continue. Sure 5 and Jodi are moving on with their inventions and I'm psyched for them. The funny thing is, concerning the credit you give the show for their success, is that just like Pat said, the people he met who liked his product didn't even know he was on the show.
I'm tired of this nonsense AC. I don't care, you can declare victory or whatever you find that makes you feel superior. I think your point, whatever or wherever it is, is just simply that you got to argue with someone. So I guess you win.
Oh and I misspelled invention at the beginning but just left it so you can make fun of me.
by AmericanCynic » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:02 pm
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Wow. Doug must have really gotten to you. Personal attacks left and right. Namecalling with the "H3" moniker you made up for Doug. If anyone's being obfuscatory, it's you. On the one hand, you're writing that it was smart of Janusz to audition. Yet you're encouraging everybody else to not audition. You don't see any contradiction there? Who are you to tell people they don't stand a chance and they shouldn't waste their time? You're not one of the judges or Fremantle production staff. If I say something is quite possible and you say it's not, doesn't that mean you think it's impossible? And if auditioning for the show is such a terrible "easy way out," what does it say that you auditioned for it?
If you were referring to my correcting Allmee, it's because that wasn't his first post with the misspelling, including what he had previously wrote on other forums. It was not in his interest to continue referring to "standed" engines on various forums if he wanted to be taken seriously, so I corrected him, and not with any venom, either. If I was so quick to correct, I would have been all over you for constantly typing "Freemantle" when it's Fremantle. As for Scrupulous, he didn't "make light of others' faux pas." He spent an entire post making fun of a new user who asked an honest question in his first post. That's no way to get new users to stick around and you should be against it, too, if you want this site to succeed as you claim you do.
I can see now why Doug didn't like arguing with you. You see things through your own little prism.
If you were referring to my correcting Allmee, it's because that wasn't his first post with the misspelling, including what he had previously wrote on other forums. It was not in his interest to continue referring to "standed" engines on various forums if he wanted to be taken seriously, so I corrected him, and not with any venom, either. If I was so quick to correct, I would have been all over you for constantly typing "Freemantle" when it's Fremantle. As for Scrupulous, he didn't "make light of others' faux pas." He spent an entire post making fun of a new user who asked an honest question in his first post. That's no way to get new users to stick around and you should be against it, too, if you want this site to succeed as you claim you do.
I can see now why Doug didn't like arguing with you. You see things through your own little prism.
by bottleslingguy » Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:43 am
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Ok, so I was wrong. You don't deserve more than a short sarcastic reply. You're right, I'm wrong. Happy? 
Oh and just for the record, quote one personal attack and I'll give you a lollipop.
Oh and just for the record, quote one personal attack and I'll give you a lollipop.
by Michelle » Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:37 am
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AmericanCynic wrote:"Has anyone gotten any angel financing here? "
A bit impatient, aren't we?AmericanCynic wrote:Look, if you're going to call this site the best thing since sliced bread, then you'd better have some results to back it up with. (No offense, Michelle.) Do you really think angels are a dime a dozen and that everyone can get one? They're extremely rare and unlikely to be combing through a site like this looking for the next big invention. Venture capitalists won't come here, either, because they don't finance startups. Established companies ready to expand, which is what VCs actually finance (after due diligence) wouldn't come to Inventorspot."I doubt anyone gotten anything more than useful feedback from other users on this site. "
This website is a resource for information on the invention process, a support community of inventors and those who try to help them, and entertainment for those in the general public who are interested in cool or wacky inventions.
If you are a serious inventor interesting in doing all the hard work of being a successful inventor, InventorSpot.com can be a helpful resource. It can help provide information, resources and contacts. It will also assist you in getting your invention broader exposure that many inventors can normally can get on your own.
That being said, InventorSpot.com is not yet a well-known and established meeting place for inventors, those interested in funding inventions and those interested in supporting the invention community. We've been around only about a year and only making slow inroads in the broader inventor community.
It will probably take a decade for our site to have the name recognition and brand value where anyone who is an inventor or interested in inventing will know about us. As far as I know, we're the best resource like this out there and nothing else comes close...but that speaks more to the lack of real options and resources for inventors. It's not that we're so great, it's that no one else is better.
Currently, we are not a robust resource for angel investors. Will we get there? Yes, probably... with hard work and efforts to network with the angel financing community. But we've made no efforts to do that yet.
Currently, we are not yet a robust resource for companies looking for invention partners. Will we get there? Yes, probably... with hard work and efforts to network with credible partnering companies. But we've made very litttle efforts to do that yet.
Our big push over the last 12 months has been focused on building our inventor community. Since inventors are widely dispersed all over the place, difficult to find and keep engaged and a highly suspicious and skeptical group of folks (who for the most part hated the American Inventor show), it's been a very tough challenge to build what we have built to date.
I am sure you can all understand that we need to have inventors on our site in order to attract the angel investors, the potential partners, etc. And frankly, our numbers are not yet compelling. If for example, we can gather several thoursand to be active in our forums, we can get a lot more done. Right now, we have about 700 registered and a few thousand more who lurk, but we probably need at least two to three time that to be interesting.
This is what we are working on.
Our strategy has been to focus on building a large and active group of inventors who call InventorSpot.com home. If we can successfully do that, all the rest will come much more easily.
But this all takes time and resources. I was just chatting the other day with an inventor. He shared with me the tons of slick and attractive videos on inventing out on YouTube created by what some think of as a scam company. When you have tons of money and tons of people working for you, you can have slick and attractive videos to promote your website pretty easily. When its a bootstrap effort of a few people volunteering time and money to build a site like InventorSpot, it's a whole different challenge and every little thing becomes hard to do.
We're like our fellow bootstrap inventors.
We just do what we can and have to rely on our inventor community to help us.
So, I agree that InventorSpot.com cannot offer anything near what American Inventor can offer in terms of media exposure, or pretty much anything they choose to focus on offering. I also agree that given enough time, InventorSpot.com does have the potential to really offer some unique and compelling resources for inventors....
But, if I am saying it will take about 10 years (given our current resources) to get to where we want to be...we're only 10% done.
So no offense taken. We're not anywhere as good as sliced bread. We hope to be and we are working hard at being good nourishment for our inventor community..but we still have a long way to go.
Thanks for all the support so far,
Michelle
by Boom Man » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:11 am
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Road Show wrote:The reality of the situation is that YOUR decision alone is what prompted you to try out for the show. Whatever expense was incurred was a decision YOU made, and now YOU want someone else to pick up the tab because you aren't happy with the results. I HATE cry babies. IF you find a lawyer willing to help you get over your damaged ego, don't be surprised if he is incompetent to stant toe to toe with the lawfirm employed by Freemantle. My advise to you is simply this: GROW UP.
RSG
My decision alone is what prompted me to go on the show...? True, but based on the false pretenses and advertisements of Freemantle Media.
Whatever expense was incurred was a decision YOU made, and now YOU want someone else to pick up the tab because you aren't happy with the results. I HATE cry babies.
Well, since you admit that there is hate in your heart, that explains why you didn't fully read and understand the original post. As I said, and since you obviously don't know, class action law suits don't net anyone much funds except the attorney/s. For example, a recent class action law suit against Napster neted each member about $ 6.00. But that's not the point, it is about the justice. So, you claiming that I want someone else to pick up the tab has no base or substance, but purely an assumption by you.
If you find a lawyer willing to help you get over your damaged ego...
There you go again... quick to judge and assume... It's not about me. It's about justice and helping other inventors. It's about the community of inventors helping inventorship and fighting wrongdoing towards inventors and the invention/innoovator community.
What is done to me and other inventors is already done. But some of us are looking out for others besides ourselves.
by bottleslingguy » Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:06 am
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"True, but based on the false pretenses and advertisements of Freemantle Media."
Hey Boom,
Can you explain what you mean by "false pretenses and advertizements"? I'm trying to figure out specifically what you are basing your charges on.
Oh and were you aware we've been spelling Freemantle wrong all this time?
Hey Boom,
Can you explain what you mean by "false pretenses and advertizements"? I'm trying to figure out specifically what you are basing your charges on.
Oh and were you aware we've been spelling Freemantle wrong all this time?
by Road Show » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:56 am
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Boom Man,
You can paint it anyway you want. American Inventor is a reality TV show. It does NOT hide the fact that they are looking for thousands of "inventors" to try out for the show. It does NOT hide the fact that it is THEIR decision to tape, edit, and portray ANY of the contestants in a disparaging way...even to the point of ridicule...and all of you sign copious documents and disclosures to that effect. To enter into such an agreement in the hopes of advancing one's invention, in my opinion, is sheer lunacy. To cry foul only after the results are known is immaturity. Basically, AI is saying: "Here, sign these documents releasing us from any potential lawsuit arising from you not liking the potential outcome of you involvement. Now, show us what you got, but keep in mind we might laugh at you." Whatever you think the damages against you might be, you'll have a hard time convincing a judge to allow a trial to proceed.
I'll say it again, I HATE CRYBABIES.
RSG
You can paint it anyway you want. American Inventor is a reality TV show. It does NOT hide the fact that they are looking for thousands of "inventors" to try out for the show. It does NOT hide the fact that it is THEIR decision to tape, edit, and portray ANY of the contestants in a disparaging way...even to the point of ridicule...and all of you sign copious documents and disclosures to that effect. To enter into such an agreement in the hopes of advancing one's invention, in my opinion, is sheer lunacy. To cry foul only after the results are known is immaturity. Basically, AI is saying: "Here, sign these documents releasing us from any potential lawsuit arising from you not liking the potential outcome of you involvement. Now, show us what you got, but keep in mind we might laugh at you." Whatever you think the damages against you might be, you'll have a hard time convincing a judge to allow a trial to proceed.
I'll say it again, I HATE CRYBABIES.
RSG
by Boom Man » Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:07 am
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Whatever you think the damages against you might be,....
There you go again. It's not the damages against me. It's the damages against the inventor community. You say you hate crybabies, but the real crybabies are the people who look out for themselves. I've already said that what was done to me is over. I'm looking out for the future of new inventors, because they tend to get discouraged more readily.
Now, show us what you got, but keep in mind we might laugh at you."
I don't care if/how you laugh at me, the fact is Freemantle Media consistantly and conspicuously advertised througout all campaigns leading up to AI 2 and particularly in their web site in bold and meticulously just like this:
MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE INVENTION MUST BE SOMETHING THAT CAN BE MASS PRODUCED AND SOLD IN RETAIL OUTLETS.
Now, if you don't think that that would lead many to believe that the most important credential for you/your invention being selected is how well it could sell in a retail outlet and how easily it could be manufactured..... Then you must not believe that there is even such thing as misleading advertisements altogether.
Furthermore, they consistantly used words such as "entreprenurial" and entreprenurial spirit in conjunction w/ words such as "inventor," "inventing". And that has to do w/ you saying: American Inventor is a reality TV show. .. Which is;
True, but I along w/ many others who don't watch too much TV do not or did not know that the purpose of such shows is to "portray ANY of the contestants in a disparaging way" as you say. After all, there is other reality TV shows such as on PBS and the discovery channel such as Everyday Einsteins that are more "realistic." And that may be the effect as to what many inventors may have been thinking about a "reality TV show."
There you go again. It's not the damages against me. It's the damages against the inventor community. You say you hate crybabies, but the real crybabies are the people who look out for themselves. I've already said that what was done to me is over. I'm looking out for the future of new inventors, because they tend to get discouraged more readily.
Now, show us what you got, but keep in mind we might laugh at you."
I don't care if/how you laugh at me, the fact is Freemantle Media consistantly and conspicuously advertised througout all campaigns leading up to AI 2 and particularly in their web site in bold and meticulously just like this:
MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE INVENTION MUST BE SOMETHING THAT CAN BE MASS PRODUCED AND SOLD IN RETAIL OUTLETS.
Now, if you don't think that that would lead many to believe that the most important credential for you/your invention being selected is how well it could sell in a retail outlet and how easily it could be manufactured..... Then you must not believe that there is even such thing as misleading advertisements altogether.
Furthermore, they consistantly used words such as "entreprenurial" and entreprenurial spirit in conjunction w/ words such as "inventor," "inventing". And that has to do w/ you saying: American Inventor is a reality TV show. .. Which is;
True, but I along w/ many others who don't watch too much TV do not or did not know that the purpose of such shows is to "portray ANY of the contestants in a disparaging way" as you say. After all, there is other reality TV shows such as on PBS and the discovery channel such as Everyday Einsteins that are more "realistic." And that may be the effect as to what many inventors may have been thinking about a "reality TV show."