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Re: Provisional Patent

Postby CriterionD » Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:34 pm

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MsU wrote:Hi:

I am REALLY new to this so I don't even know what a Provisional Patent is. Any guidance?

Ms.U


Check the board's FAQ for more info

Postby melluc » Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:48 am

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Hi MsU,
Welcome to this great group of people and resources. This is a good place to start learning all about the invention process---really more complicated than I thought it would be---but it's all here. After you have read through the forums---this will take some time---and written down notes for things you need clarification on you can do a search on those things and post questions for the experienced people here to help with. Take your time, it will be worth your effort.
Best to you,
Melodee

Why get a patent

Postby Mr Invention » Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:02 am

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This forum like the one that I had over 10 years ago, has more info on it about patents than there should be. There is a mind set out there with newbe inventors that think they need a patent and in most cases have no money which automatically eliminates getting a patent and ever getting their idea to market. The PTO is pumping out patents at the rate of 1000 per day and most of them are not worth the paper they are written on and in some cases the patent attorney's getting them are major scammers. I know this because I have had clients that prior to finding me, have paid in excess of $10,000 for a utililty patent with technical drawings that could not even be replicated in prototype form. If you have been in business as long as I have (60 years) and 40 of those years in the idea business, you will see where a lot of patent attorney licenses are suspended or they are totally disbarred for ripping off unsuspecting people with ideas that think they need to get a patent so that they can sell or license that patent which rarely ever happens. If you are smart enough to come up with an idea you are smart enough to go to the PTO and get all the "Do it yourself" patent info and do it yourself. Also if you do ever get a product to market (99.97% of people never do get their idea to market) without a patent there is a very small chance of your infringing on others patents and very little chance there would ever be a infringement suit. Also, during the last few months that I have contributed to this forum, I have had several people contact me with their ideas and like 500,000+ others that have contacted me over the past 40 years, they had no money and wanted to sell their idea to me or wanted me to spend all of the money and take all of the risk required to get their idea to market. Unfortunately most of those people were young (Under the age of 40) and didn't really have any idea what the idea business or any or type of business is all about. I would appreciate it very much that people with ideas with no money, not contact me because I can not help them nor will anybody else. If you do have some money, I will tell you how to spend it and I will not suggest that you use my services. I only accept one or two new clients a year and those clients normally come from past clients or current client referrals. I also own several unrelated idea businesses that keep me busy, so I don't really need clients inorder to survive unlike most Idea Promotion Companies, Patent Agents and Patent Agents.

Re: Why get a patent

Postby Patent_Attorney » Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:50 pm

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Mr Invention wrote:This forum like the one that I had over 10 years ago, has more info on it about patents than there should be. There is a mind set out there with newbe inventors that think they need a patent and in most cases have no money which automatically eliminates getting a patent and ever getting their idea to market. The PTO is pumping out patents at the rate of 1000 per day and most of them are not worth the paper they are written on and in some cases the patent attorney's getting them are major scammers. I know this because I have had clients that prior to finding me, have paid in excess of $10,000 for a utililty patent with technical drawings that could not even be replicated in prototype form. If you have been in business as long as I have (60 years) and 40 of those years in the idea business, you will see where a lot of patent attorney licenses are suspended or they are totally disbarred for ripping off unsuspecting people with ideas that think they need to get a patent so that they can sell or license that patent which rarely ever happens. If you are smart enough to come up with an idea you are smart enough to go to the PTO and get all the "Do it yourself" patent info and do it yourself. Also if you do ever get a product to market (99.97% of people never do get their idea to market) without a patent there is a very small chance of your infringing on others patents and very little chance there would ever be a infringement suit. Also, during the last few months that I have contributed to this forum, I have had several people contact me with their ideas and like 500,000+ others that have contacted me over the past 40 years, they had no money and wanted to sell their idea to me or wanted me to spend all of the money and take all of the risk required to get their idea to market. Unfortunately most of those people were young (Under the age of 40) and didn't really have any idea what the idea business or any or type of business is all about. I would appreciate it very much that people with ideas with no money, not contact me because I can not help them nor will anybody else. If you do have some money, I will tell you how to spend it and I will not suggest that you use my services. I only accept one or two new clients a year and those clients normally come from past clients or current client referrals. I also own several unrelated idea businesses that keep me busy, so I don't really need clients inorder to survive unlike most Idea Promotion Companies, Patent Agents and Patent Agents.


It is clear why his name is Mr. Invention and NOT Mr. Patent. A patent is a legal document and a business tool. First and foremost a patent is NOT a manufacturing blueprint and the $10k fee may be based upon number of embodiments, claims or just last minute filing expenses.

Calling a patent attorney a scammer is both incorrect and insulting. The statement "you will see where a lot of patent attorney licenses are suspended or they are totally disbarred for ripping off unsuspecting people with ideas that think they need to get a patent so that they can sell or license that patent which rarely ever happens." Is blatently false on its face and I would appreciate that you don't throw legitimate practioners registered with the USPTO in with MARKETING SCAMMERS.

If you want a simple patent hire an independent agent or a solo practioner. If you have a small budget DONT GO TO A LARGE LAWFIRM because 60% of the cost goes to the overhead and the senior partner and the lawyer works 70hrs a week to keep his job.

Interpretation

Postby Mr Invention » Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:33 pm

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This is the main reason I told all of my children never to become an attorney or journalist (They went on to become PhD's, PE's, CPA's with MBA's). One can use their own interpretation of anything that they read to fit their own agenda. I have had attorney's that worked for me that were disbarred for stealing money from little old ladies trust funds along with a list (Not all) of patent attorneys that were suspended and/or disbarred for their unethical actions. I would be merely foolish to make a broad brush statement that all attorneys or journalist are liars, crooked or scammers but for one to say that there are nonethat would fit that description would also be ridiculous. All of my opinons about ideas/inventions are based on my tried and true approach to getting products to market. Because of my life and business experience, I have found it is better to be specific when explaining ones opinions or giving advise versus resorting to ambiguity, generalities, wiggle words and semantics.

Re: Interpretation

Postby Patent_Attorney » Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:49 pm

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Mr Invention wrote:This is the main reason I told all of my children never to become an attorney or journalist (They went on to become PhD's, PE's, CPA's with MBA's). One can use their own interpretation of anything that they read to fit their own agenda. I have had attorney's that worked for me that were disbarred for stealing money from little old ladies trust funds along with a list (Not all) of patent attorneys that were suspended and/or disbarred for their unethical actions. I would be merely foolish to make a broad brush statement that all attorneys or journalist are liars, crooked or scammers but for one to say that there are nonethat would fit that description would also be ridiculous. All of my opinons about ideas/inventions are based on my tried and true approach to getting products to market. Because of my life and business experience, I have found it is better to be specific when explaining ones opinions or giving advise versus resorting to ambiguity, generalities, wiggle words and semantics.


I am sure that every group has a bad element. I am no big fan of attorneys and I agree that they are just human. If you have so many unethical associations in the past then maybe you should question the source of counsel that you are choosing. I am sure that there are patent attorneys have been involved with invention promotors addicted to the easy money involved with selling a licensing lie instead of the hard work properly protecting an invention. I personally have never met a disbarred patent attorney during my career, but I am sure out of the 50,000 or less patent attorney some must have been disbarred.

If your attorney is stealing from a trust fund then I think he lied about being a patent attorney.

Clarification

Postby Mr Invention » Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:42 am

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Because you seem like a very nice young man, I really don't mind clarifying my post in this forum for you. I have made a life practice of having meeting of minds in all of my private and business decisions. I have more business interest than just the idea business thus that reguired I have the appropritae attorneys on retainer. The attorneys that were disbarred for stealing money from a a little old ladies trust fund also had drug and alcohol issues. They did in fact go to the rehab centers for attorneys (There are also rehab center for doctors and nurses) but evidently the treatments did not take. Point being, my experience with patent attorneys and real estate attorneys are not related. I would also like to state that I am the manufacturer and distributor of my and my clients ideas. I tried and failed to license or sell my ideas thus I developed my 25 steps process for turning a germ of an idea into viable products ready for marking. As for your not knowing of any patent attorneys being disbarred, are you aware of any that have had their license suspended and which do you think is worse, suspension or disbarment? Have a nice day.

Re: Clarification

Postby Patent_Attorney » Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:51 am

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Mr Invention wrote:Because you seem like a very nice young man, I really don't mind clarifying my post in this forum for you. I have made a life practice of having meeting of minds in all of my private and business decisions. I have more business interest than just the idea business thus that reguired I have the appropritae attorneys on retainer. The attorneys that were disbarred for stealing money from a a little old ladies trust fund also had drug and alcohol issues. They did in fact go to the rehab centers for attorneys (There are also rehab center for doctors and nurses) but evidently the treatments did not take. Point being, my experience with patent attorneys and real estate attorneys are not related. I would also like to state that I am the manufacturer and distributor of my and my clients ideas. I tried and failed to license or sell my ideas thus I developed my 25 steps process for turning a germ of an idea into viable products ready for marking. As for your not knowing of any patent attorneys being disbarred, are you aware of any that have had their license suspended and which do you think is worse, suspension or disbarment? Have a nice day.


Disbarment is much worse than suspension because it is considered to involve a major ethical violation. Disbarment is the permanant removal where suspension can be for minor or inconsequental events such as failing to update an address after moving or paying a bar fee.

Ah yes, the explanation of an attorney

Postby Mr Invention » Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:17 am

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I think the point I was trying to make was, regardless of which of the penalties (Suspension or Disbarment) an attorney is given for an ethical breach, the attorney shouldn't have done what he or she did inorder to realize the same. You have definitely described the least cause and effect of an ethical infraction but you did not include some of the more serious reasons for suspenesion of an attorneys license which in this case that I described was for cheating people out of money by providing useless patents. Most people (I did not say all people) try to paint a happy face on their greedy and habitual acts of improprieties thus hoping to minimize any penalities when they get caught.

Re: Ah yes, the explanation of an attorney

Postby Patent_Attorney » Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:35 am

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Mr Invention wrote:I think the point I was trying to make was, regardless of which of the penalties (Suspension or Disbarment) an attorney is given for an ethical breach, the attorney shouldn't have done what he or she did inorder to realize the same. You have definitely described the least cause and effect of an ethical infraction but you did not include some of the more serious reasons for suspenesion of an attorneys license which in this case that I described was for cheating people out of money by providing useless patents. Most people (I did not say all people) try to paint a happy face on their greedy and habitual acts of improprieties thus hoping to minimize any penalities when they get caught.


Suspension is not for stealing money but for minor non-ethical infractions such as violating non-ethical rules. Disbarments are for lying, cheating and stealing.

There is an inherent ethical conflict in any organization that both prosecutes a patent application and allegedly "markets" the invention. The patent attorney 90% of the time gets disbarred during litigation for commiting unethical acts unless he is a cheat and works the system "marketing" inventions.

I have no idea why there is such a hard time licensing GOOD inventions. Every inventor that I have dealt with that had a GOOD invention contacted an existing business once they had a provisional and had good luck with getting a license.

The problem is that most inventions suck
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