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The Patent Troll

Postby Derek Pater » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:32 pm

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Re: The Patent Troll

Postby Gizmo » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:17 pm

Gizmo
 
Derek, I call them Patent Tramps or Whores....not Troll's... :mrgreen:

Re: The Patent Troll

Postby Derek Pater » Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:19 pm

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Hi Gizmo,
It would be very intresting to know the full impact these Trolls are on the Innovation industry and what extra costs they add to new products?

www.inventionsecrets.net
:D :D

Re: The Patent Troll

Postby apapage » Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:31 pm

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I don't understand why everyone hates trolls. Many of the largest manufacturers that fight against trolls are themselves trolls. Xerox was a troll when they sued Palm over their computer handwriting patent. Many individual inventors are also trolls. In another case, Microsoft got wind of a software product that a small business was trying to develop. MS put their best on it and beat the small guy to market. Luckily the small guy got a patent and was able recover from MS with the aid of a contingency fee attorney. Inventors often pay more for their patents than the big guys'; why should inventors have less rights just because they do not have the money to produce their invention or the money to enforce it? Some of the greatest innovations come from small inventors that simply cannot afford to produce their invention. The most notable that I've had the opportunity to work on is the cardiac stent. The inventor produced the first stent in his garage with parts that he purchased from a local electronics store. He didn't have the millions to get FDA approval. Is his patent worth less than the thousands of stent patents that followed? It shouldn't.

Re: The Patent Troll

Postby Derek Pater » Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:25 pm

Derek Pater
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I don't understand why everyone hates trolls. Many of the largest manufacturers that fight against trolls are themselves trolls. Xerox was a troll when they sued Palm over their computer handwriting patent. Many individual inventors are also trolls. In another case, Microsoft got wind of a software product that a small business was trying to develop. MS put their best on it and beat the small guy to market. Luckily the small guy got a patent and was able recover from MS with the aid of a contingency fee attorney. Inventors often pay more for their patents than the big guys'; why should inventors have less rights just because they do not have the money to produce their invention or the money to enforce it? Some of the greatest innovations come from small inventors that simply cannot afford to produce their invention. The most notable that I've had the opportunity to work on is the cardiac stent. The inventor produced the first stent in his garage with parts that he purchased from a local electronics store. He didn't have the millions to get FDA approval. Is his patent worth less than the thousands of stent patents that followed? It shouldn't.


I find this a very interesting subject that I have very little knowledge about, say only those sites that I found at that’s about it, so please bring it on!
There must be others inventors and patent experts in this Forum who can give us all the big Picture on this?

So my soul focus has been to develop new products and Licensing them, for myself and clients.

This is defiantly my weakest knowledge part in the Innovation field and I have only done only about 10 minutes of research on this!

I would love a article on this for my website!

http://www.inventionsecrets.net
:D :D

Re: The Patent Troll

Postby Mike Burke » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:41 pm

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I think the bigger picture is the cost that litigation of any kind imposes on innovation and the products thereof. Some would argue quite rightly that certain products would never have been developed were there no profit motive as incentive to the creative process. But wherever that profit motive is perverted to put money in the hands of those whose endeavour is least creative and often most exploitative then I think that the law should have a problem with these unintended consequences. After all law is made by the executive government on behalf of societies whose values it ought to reflect. If the law is made wrongly then it simply ought to be changed.

In some fields such as medical and genetic patent holdings the concern would be for the rising cost of various medical services to the end user. Patent holders could almost be regarded as trolls if lives are lost in the pursuit of excessive profits.

In agriculture both farmers and their countrymen especially in third world nations have suffered at the hands of global corporations whose patents allow them to exploit GM technologies aimed originally at the very laudable goal of feeding the world. How could anything so well intended ultimately go so wrong other that by the perverse actions of exploitation for profit.

These two examples alone show how misuse of Patent rights with unintended consequences becomes a moral issue that paints more than one player in the role of the Troll.

In our case we are mostly focussed on our various consumer products and business ventures that don't have that high flown moral aspect to them. There is nonetheless also a wrong done to an inventor whose investment of time and capital is intentionally undermined by parasitic paralegals. In the case of the small inventor who bears the cost of patents himself then the argument goes that if he intends to sell the invention or enter into some form of partnership with a manufacturer then eventually the bulk of damage falls upon whoever carries the greater share of the investment. This in itself provides a conundrum for inventors and manufacturers since the larger company becomes the juicier target for the kind of Troll that we're talking about, and yet they will want to protect their IP more diligently than somebody whose sole property is conceptual.

I'd conclude that if you want to change the system then indeed Political action may be the only way, and in that regard connecting with proponents against the unintended consequences that do the greatest harm would be useful. Inventors bring the view that not only do current patent laws fail those to whom social harm is done but that through high costs and the action or inaction which allows people like Trolls to operate they also fail to serve those whom they are mostly intended to protect.

In closing I'd say that as a small inventor the assignment of patent rights in conjunction with capital partners or manufacturers is often at least the most appropriate way of protecting IP. If however even this is compromised when Trolls seek to exploit the system then the only recourse may be to keep moving IP to new domains wherever it is sheltered from them.

One interesting example might be sought in parallels with software licensing. I wonder how patent protection and license protection compare and whether the later provides greater protection.

http://www.jamb.com.au/ :D

Re: The Patent Troll

Postby Scrupulous » Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:46 pm

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What do you mean exactly by 'license protection'?

By the way, very interesting commentary.

Welcome to the forums.

Re: The Patent Troll

Postby Mike Burke » Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:16 am

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I'm just floating an idea off the top of my head because I too would be interested in any feedback I get from it.

My thoughts were that software is protected by the license agreement between the seller and the purchaser. The terminology used is that the product is NOT in the public domain. What I think that it means is that you can be restrictive in delivering a product or service in a way that legally requires the user agrees that they have use of rather than ownership of the item.

I mentioned it simply because I want to challenge notions about patents on the basis that I don't see them really offering effective protection in the sense that I think that they ought to.

Cheers,

Mike

http://www.jamb.com.au/

Re: The Patent Troll

Postby Derek Pater » Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:20 am

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Location: Melbourne Australia
I'm just floating an idea off the top of my head because I too would be interested in any feedback I get from it.

My thoughts were that software is protected by the license agreement between the seller and the purchaser. The terminology used is that the product is NOT in the public domain. What I think that it means is that you can be restrictive in delivering a product or service in a way that legally requires the user agrees that they have use of rather than ownership of the item.

I mentioned it simply because I want to challenge notions about patents on the basis that I don't see them really offering effective protection in the sense that I think that they ought to.
Cheers,
Mike
http://www.jamb.com.au/


Mike,
This could also be a good thread for this subject viewtopic.php?f=43&t=3658&start=10

I do agree with your comments and the time has come for a review of the Patent system!

I mentioned it simply because I want to challenge notions about patents on the basis that I don't see them really offering effective protection in the sense that I think that they ought to


This is why I have a different approach because personally I do not agree with Inventors having to carry the Patent cost’s, research and development costs I have no problem with.

I have seen in some cases Inventors doing very well due to having Patents, but I believe the same is possible with my methods also. My basic arguments is that 80% of all Patents lodged by the Solo Inventor Are a pure waste of time and money, yes Patents have value, but the odds are very much against you with the traditional methods 2% chance of real $$$$$.

The problems with most Inventors they create their own obstacles when it comes to the issue of the Patent’s, my Inventor friend Dino who you know, calls me the anomaly
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomaly

When it comes to Inventors


Having read Harvey Reece’s Books about Licensing new products of which he has Licensed over 100 products, I was very impressed with his attitude of sharing his knowledge, firstly he cannot help everyone and neither can I.

By building my site over 2 years and having some feedback from very happy Novice Inventor's not because the choose my methods, but they became informed and that is important being informed, having a resource of web links and information at No cost!

http://www.inventionsecrets.net
:D :D

Re: The Patent Troll

Postby davh12 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:50 am

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So I assume that Patent Trolls or whores are companies and manufacturing businesses that can shell out the "bones" for getting a patented idea pushed to market when small entities cannot afford it? It seems so unfair that small and independent entities or inventors get "short changed". Is there any credible organization out there that works in favor of the inventor? Or perhaps they're all just like car dealers?

Regards,

Dave
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