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inventing
by Roger Brown » Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:53 am
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Roger Brown - Black Belt
- Posts: 1208
- Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:53 pm
- Location: USA
Tony, When you first get an idea for a new product what do you do next?
Come visit my sites at http://www.RogerBrown.net
or http://www.looking2license.com
I have gotten 9 products licensed spending less than $100 on each, you can too.
or http://www.looking2license.com
I have gotten 9 products licensed spending less than $100 on each, you can too.
Answer for Roger
by tony.fulford » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:16 pm
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tony.fulford - Green Belt
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:04 pm
Roger Brown wrote:
So the first thing most inventors think is new, i.e., unique and not obvious, etc., i.e., all those popular patent terms. I want you to know, in the beginning, I don't really care whether I can get a patent on an idea. I first want to determine if the idea is something I want to pursue, and can pursue, without legal problems. It it does not meet this criteria, I am just wasting my time on an idea that is not going anywhere. Some companies I work with on a regular basis always want an idea that is patentable. Others don't really care whether the idea can be patented or not as long as it does not create legal problems. So, it really depends on the client. I always perform searches to determine the legal implications. The way I accomplish this is by searching and I usually do this in the following places and sequence:
In summary, it all depends on where you want to go with an idea an what the client wants. After all, the client is the customer and it is the customer that keps you in business as an inventor.
Tony, When you first get an idea for a new product what do you do next?
So the first thing most inventors think is new, i.e., unique and not obvious, etc., i.e., all those popular patent terms. I want you to know, in the beginning, I don't really care whether I can get a patent on an idea. I first want to determine if the idea is something I want to pursue, and can pursue, without legal problems. It it does not meet this criteria, I am just wasting my time on an idea that is not going anywhere. Some companies I work with on a regular basis always want an idea that is patentable. Others don't really care whether the idea can be patented or not as long as it does not create legal problems. So, it really depends on the client. I always perform searches to determine the legal implications. The way I accomplish this is by searching and I usually do this in the following places and sequence:
- Google Patents
This is simple searching to get a feel about patenting potential, not comprehensive to determine if it can really be patented. I do not feel that Google patent searches provide enough refinement to determine real patentability potential. - ThomasNet
This searching is to determine what companies may have wholesale or retail products for the idea I am pursuing. - Google
This is a general search of the Internet to determine what is out there and who my client may be competing with. - USPTO Patent Database
This is where I do searches for ideas that must have patent potential. While most of the patent search websites have adequate search capability for initial searching to get a feel for patentability, the USPTO is the only place that has the in depth capability for search of prior art and patentability.
In summary, it all depends on where you want to go with an idea an what the client wants. After all, the client is the customer and it is the customer that keps you in business as an inventor.
--Tony
Visit my Website: http://InventionsOnDemand.net
Visit my Forum at: http://inventorspotforum.com/viewforum.php?f=44
Visit my Website: http://InventionsOnDemand.net
Visit my Forum at: http://inventorspotforum.com/viewforum.php?f=44
Question for Roger
by tony.fulford » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:49 pm
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tony.fulford - Green Belt
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:04 pm
Once you have a solid idea; How do you find manufacturers/clients?
--Tony
Visit my Website: http://InventionsOnDemand.net
Visit my Forum at: http://inventorspotforum.com/viewforum.php?f=44
Visit my Website: http://InventionsOnDemand.net
Visit my Forum at: http://inventorspotforum.com/viewforum.php?f=44
inventing
by Roger Brown » Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:29 am
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Roger Brown - Black Belt
- Posts: 1208
- Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:53 pm
- Location: USA
Tony wrote:
For me it works three ways. Sometimes I have an idea that just comes to me that I like without any particular client in mind. Other times I have a target company that I want to break into and concentrate on their product line to think of ideas that fit that line or would make a great expansion to that line as a totally new product. Then there are the companies that send you Wish Lists.
The ones that just come to me are a little more difficult to deal with because you are starting off with no plan of action. I will consider what market the item will fit and then proceed to look at various companies within that market to see who I would target first, second and so on.
Since I have been doing this awhile I have a list of companies in a broad range of markets and am always adding more. This gives me a great jumping off point to get started. I have had ideas that just didn't fit anything I had tried before so it is back to square one contacting companies seeing which ones are open to outside ideas. Contacting companies cold is an area that more Inventors need confidence in doing. I am always hearing Inventors saying they wish they knew more companies to contact, but I rarely hear them say "I spent a large part of my spare time just contatcing companies." This is where they hit a brick wall and stop. A large number of Inventors seem to think that companies will somehow magically know they are alive and have that idea they have been looking for all their lives. It just doesn't work that way. It is hard work with a lot of rejections. As I always say "You have to get past the fear of the No to get a YES."
Having a target company in mind and going after them is easier because you know what they are producing so you look at what they have and see if you can improve anything they sell or would they be a great new item to add to the line or a direction they haven't gone into that you think would fit their customer base.
Having a Wish List is probably my favorite method to invent. When a company sends me a wish list they are narrowing down the field for me and telling me I am wasting my time thinking in other areas they are not interested in seeing. It also increases your chances of getting a YES from them since you are tailoring your concepts to a need you know they have. Plus, if you get a Yes from them you have increased your value to that company and they will be quick to tell you of any other needs they have. It gives you a leg up on the competition that is on the outside blindly submitting ideas hoping they hit a target they don't know exists.
Once you have a solid idea; How do you find manufacturers/clients?
For me it works three ways. Sometimes I have an idea that just comes to me that I like without any particular client in mind. Other times I have a target company that I want to break into and concentrate on their product line to think of ideas that fit that line or would make a great expansion to that line as a totally new product. Then there are the companies that send you Wish Lists.
The ones that just come to me are a little more difficult to deal with because you are starting off with no plan of action. I will consider what market the item will fit and then proceed to look at various companies within that market to see who I would target first, second and so on.
Since I have been doing this awhile I have a list of companies in a broad range of markets and am always adding more. This gives me a great jumping off point to get started. I have had ideas that just didn't fit anything I had tried before so it is back to square one contacting companies seeing which ones are open to outside ideas. Contacting companies cold is an area that more Inventors need confidence in doing. I am always hearing Inventors saying they wish they knew more companies to contact, but I rarely hear them say "I spent a large part of my spare time just contatcing companies." This is where they hit a brick wall and stop. A large number of Inventors seem to think that companies will somehow magically know they are alive and have that idea they have been looking for all their lives. It just doesn't work that way. It is hard work with a lot of rejections. As I always say "You have to get past the fear of the No to get a YES."
Having a target company in mind and going after them is easier because you know what they are producing so you look at what they have and see if you can improve anything they sell or would they be a great new item to add to the line or a direction they haven't gone into that you think would fit their customer base.
Having a Wish List is probably my favorite method to invent. When a company sends me a wish list they are narrowing down the field for me and telling me I am wasting my time thinking in other areas they are not interested in seeing. It also increases your chances of getting a YES from them since you are tailoring your concepts to a need you know they have. Plus, if you get a Yes from them you have increased your value to that company and they will be quick to tell you of any other needs they have. It gives you a leg up on the competition that is on the outside blindly submitting ideas hoping they hit a target they don't know exists.
Come visit my sites at http://www.RogerBrown.net
or http://www.looking2license.com
I have gotten 9 products licensed spending less than $100 on each, you can too.
or http://www.looking2license.com
I have gotten 9 products licensed spending less than $100 on each, you can too.
by Joel_67 » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:35 pm
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Joel_67 - White Belt
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:58 am
Roger & Tony
In the past 7 years I've tried approaching companies only to find they don't take outside ideas, or as in one case (" once you submit a idea it becomes our idea and we can't discuss our idea with a outside individual").
I like Mr. Brown have ideas all over the spectrum and modification to existing products as well as movie ideas, but I've had no luck getting a idea off the ground. On my website www.imagestoinnovation.org I have a method of idea sales I'd like to use, here it is :
Perpetuity Method
The perpetuity method is a new way of selling raw ideas,where
the middle men of laywers and the patent trade office are
removed from the sale.
Now what is this method ?
As stated this is a sale in perpetuity, once the sale is made the inventor
relinquishes all legal rights to the idea forever, no licensing or royalities.
1.The potential buyer first signs a non-disclosure agreement,
with the inventor.
2. The idea(s) is/are shown, a price is agreed upon.
( It must be understood that due to the lack of a patent this amount is far less
than a patented idea. The benifit to the buyer is that the amount agreed upon
might be less than the years salary of one of the R & D department . )
3. A bill of sale is drawn up, there by giving the inventor
proof of sale and a form of reference by which he can use
to make other sales.
4. The inventor then releases the buyer from the non-disclosure.
At this point all business is complete, and both parties understand
that the inventor has made a writen agreement to never contest the
ownership of the idea, the buyer is free to do with the idea as it sees
fit . Futher the buyer is free to contact the inventor to purchase other
ideas at any time.
Can either of you give me a reason why this shouldn't work?
In the past 7 years I've tried approaching companies only to find they don't take outside ideas, or as in one case (" once you submit a idea it becomes our idea and we can't discuss our idea with a outside individual").
I like Mr. Brown have ideas all over the spectrum and modification to existing products as well as movie ideas, but I've had no luck getting a idea off the ground. On my website www.imagestoinnovation.org I have a method of idea sales I'd like to use, here it is :
Perpetuity Method
The perpetuity method is a new way of selling raw ideas,where
the middle men of laywers and the patent trade office are
removed from the sale.
Now what is this method ?
As stated this is a sale in perpetuity, once the sale is made the inventor
relinquishes all legal rights to the idea forever, no licensing or royalities.
1.The potential buyer first signs a non-disclosure agreement,
with the inventor.
2. The idea(s) is/are shown, a price is agreed upon.
( It must be understood that due to the lack of a patent this amount is far less
than a patented idea. The benifit to the buyer is that the amount agreed upon
might be less than the years salary of one of the R & D department . )
3. A bill of sale is drawn up, there by giving the inventor
proof of sale and a form of reference by which he can use
to make other sales.
4. The inventor then releases the buyer from the non-disclosure.
At this point all business is complete, and both parties understand
that the inventor has made a writen agreement to never contest the
ownership of the idea, the buyer is free to do with the idea as it sees
fit . Futher the buyer is free to contact the inventor to purchase other
ideas at any time.
Can either of you give me a reason why this shouldn't work?
by tony.fulford » Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:37 am
-
tony.fulford - Green Belt
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:04 pm
Joel_67 - Welcome!
You have made a good move by coming to ISpot. You will find struggling inventors here that are very sympathetic to your frustrations in getting started in the invention process. You will find a lot of support here and very good ideas for ways to get the recognition you desire.
Your perpetuity method is a form of a licensing agreement for your ideas and there is no reason it will not work with a licensee. There are companies that accept outside submisions for ideas, even though they are not always easy to locate for a given idea. There are some good ideas here for locating manufacturers. First, you need to spend some time at ThomasNet locating companies specific to your particular ideas. Go to their website and locate contact information and contact them. I recommend making a telephone call to locate the proper person (or department) to contact because most of the companies contact information is for customer service personnel. They are not the ones you need to be contacting about external submissions. You need to get them to direct you to marketing or intellectual property counsel.
Another thing you need to consider is entering some of the inventor contest. Win or lose, you may get some good recognition through the contest.
As a closing observation, I would suggest that you do not make your ideas public. If you are keeping a properly witnessed inventor's notebook, this does not hurt you so much as long as the USA is a first-to-invent system. It does however, hurt in countries that are first-to-file. Making an idea public prevents a manufacturer from getting a patent in those countries, and thereby takes some of the options away from a manufacturer that desires international patents.
Look around here and participate and you will find a community here that will help wherever thay can!
You have made a good move by coming to ISpot. You will find struggling inventors here that are very sympathetic to your frustrations in getting started in the invention process. You will find a lot of support here and very good ideas for ways to get the recognition you desire.
Your perpetuity method is a form of a licensing agreement for your ideas and there is no reason it will not work with a licensee. There are companies that accept outside submisions for ideas, even though they are not always easy to locate for a given idea. There are some good ideas here for locating manufacturers. First, you need to spend some time at ThomasNet locating companies specific to your particular ideas. Go to their website and locate contact information and contact them. I recommend making a telephone call to locate the proper person (or department) to contact because most of the companies contact information is for customer service personnel. They are not the ones you need to be contacting about external submissions. You need to get them to direct you to marketing or intellectual property counsel.
Another thing you need to consider is entering some of the inventor contest. Win or lose, you may get some good recognition through the contest.
As a closing observation, I would suggest that you do not make your ideas public. If you are keeping a properly witnessed inventor's notebook, this does not hurt you so much as long as the USA is a first-to-invent system. It does however, hurt in countries that are first-to-file. Making an idea public prevents a manufacturer from getting a patent in those countries, and thereby takes some of the options away from a manufacturer that desires international patents.
Look around here and participate and you will find a community here that will help wherever thay can!
--Tony
Visit my Website: http://InventionsOnDemand.net
Visit my Forum at: http://inventorspotforum.com/viewforum.php?f=44
Visit my Website: http://InventionsOnDemand.net
Visit my Forum at: http://inventorspotforum.com/viewforum.php?f=44
by Scott Doty » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:34 am
- Scott Doty
- White Belt
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:14 am
- Location: philly
Tony and Roger,
I am really enjoying this thread. Thanks guys.
Tony,
In your forumn, you wrote:
Can you expand on this a little bit.
In this situation, where you are showing evidence that you developed an invention at a certain date, do you mean that you are stopping someone else from getting the patent. Is this meant as a detterent to someone ripping you off?
[Because as you stated elseware, if your provisional patent application expires, the invention is public domain.]
Is there some other benefit to this method that I am missing?
I am really enjoying this thread. Thanks guys.
Tony,
In your forumn, you wrote:
"I then take that time to present it to companies for licensing. If I cannot license it within a year, I put it on the back burner and do not file a non-provisional application. As long as the USA has first-to-invent as opposed to first-to-file, I will continue in this manner. I still have it in my Inventor's Notebook and I have a copy of the provisional so that if anyone gets a patent issued for it I can challenge their patent if I choose."
Can you expand on this a little bit.
In this situation, where you are showing evidence that you developed an invention at a certain date, do you mean that you are stopping someone else from getting the patent. Is this meant as a detterent to someone ripping you off?
[Because as you stated elseware, if your provisional patent application expires, the invention is public domain.]
Is there some other benefit to this method that I am missing?
by tony.fulford » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:58 am
-
tony.fulford - Green Belt
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:04 pm
Scott Doty
No, I am not stopping anyone else from getting a patent. It's just that if anyone else does get a patent, I have proof of first-to-invent if I choose to challenge their patent. Whether I would choose to challenge a patent or not would depend on how much time has passed. You must keep in mind that if I do not practice due diligence, I also lose my first-to-invent rights.
Thanks,
Scott Doty wrote:In this situation, where you are showing evidence that you developed an invention at a certain date, do you mean that you are stopping someone else from getting the patent. Is this meant as a detterent to someone ripping you off?
No, I am not stopping anyone else from getting a patent. It's just that if anyone else does get a patent, I have proof of first-to-invent if I choose to challenge their patent. Whether I would choose to challenge a patent or not would depend on how much time has passed. You must keep in mind that if I do not practice due diligence, I also lose my first-to-invent rights.
Thanks,
--Tony
Visit my Website: http://InventionsOnDemand.net
Visit my Forum at: http://inventorspotforum.com/viewforum.php?f=44
Visit my Website: http://InventionsOnDemand.net
Visit my Forum at: http://inventorspotforum.com/viewforum.php?f=44
by Scott Doty » Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:01 am
- Scott Doty
- White Belt
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:14 am
- Location: philly
Tony,
In what situations is it beneficial to challenge someone's patent?
Would it only be if you wanted to manufacture it yourself without a patent?
Or only if the clock has not started ticking on your invention, but you have it well documented in your inventor's notebook, etc. and you wish to seek a patent yourself?
And assuming that this is an idea for which your provisional application has expired, wouldn't you just be proving that the invention is in the public domain? Because, regardless of who invented it, if you don't file a utility patent application within a year of filing a provisional application, then your idea is in the public domain, right?
I apologize for asking so many questions about this, but I still don't understand completely.
In what situations is it beneficial to challenge someone's patent?
Would it only be if you wanted to manufacture it yourself without a patent?
Or only if the clock has not started ticking on your invention, but you have it well documented in your inventor's notebook, etc. and you wish to seek a patent yourself?
And assuming that this is an idea for which your provisional application has expired, wouldn't you just be proving that the invention is in the public domain? Because, regardless of who invented it, if you don't file a utility patent application within a year of filing a provisional application, then your idea is in the public domain, right?
I apologize for asking so many questions about this, but I still don't understand completely.
by tony.fulford » Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:26 am
-
tony.fulford - Green Belt
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:04 pm
Scott Doty wrote:In what situations is it beneficial to challenge someone's patent?
I would first go to the patent holder and see if I could negoitiate terms with them by showing them my first-to-invent documentation. I would probably never do an open challenge in court. It is too expensive.
Scott Doty wrote:Would it only be if you wanted to manufacture it yourself without a patent?
It could be, but I will never manufacture myself. I have run enough companies and don't want to go back to that.
Scott Doty wrote:Or only if the clock has not started ticking on your invention, but you have it well documented in your inventor's notebook, etc. and you wish to seek a patent yourself?
Yes, or use it for leverage for a deal with the patent holder.
Scott Doty wrote:And assuming that this is an idea for which your provisional application has expired, wouldn't you just be proving that the invention is in the public domain? Because, regardless of who invented it, if you don't file a utility patent application within a year of filing a provisional application, then your idea is in the public domain, right?
Well, it is not actually in the public domain from filing the provisional. Provisionals are never published. It would be in the public domain from the promotion activity for the year following filing the provisional.
Scott Doty wrote:I apologize for asking so many questions about this, but I still don't understand completely.
Keep asking questions until you understand. Thats what this site is all about. Don't appologize for questions.
Thanks,
--Tony
Visit my Website: http://InventionsOnDemand.net
Visit my Forum at: http://inventorspotforum.com/viewforum.php?f=44
Visit my Website: http://InventionsOnDemand.net
Visit my Forum at: http://inventorspotforum.com/viewforum.php?f=44
31 posts
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