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Scams, Cons and Other Risks
by Roger Brown » Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:51 pm
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Roger Brown - Black Belt
- Posts: 1208
- Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:53 pm
- Location: USA
Below is an email I received. This bears careful consideration before you do anything with this site. They are based in India and want you to post your ideas for public viewing on their site. A concern is also that even if you have a U.S.Patent of it you are exposing it to a country you do not have it licensed or internationally patent protected. So, the way I see it you are giving them first option to steal your idea and lets see you try and sue them for patent infringement from the U.S.
This is one section out of 54 segments in their terms of use policy. Notice the term "sub-licensable " in this section. They are stating they can sell your material to anyone as long as it is posted on their site.
I would call that a red flag.
This is under their we are not liable section. As they say "Buyer Beware"
Hello Inventor,
Ideawicket.com has recently launched its 'Open Innovation Portal' for designers, innovators and inventors to showcase their talents to the world.
Use Ideawicket to -
- Provide detailed descriptions of your designs, inventions and ideas
- Upload multiple images and embed a video feed
- Make your invention 'Public' or 'Private'
- Customize your profile
- Share your invention and receive ratings, comments and feedback
- Message other Ideawicket users
- Recommend corporations you would like to market your invention to
Fire up your imagination and visit Ideawicket.
Hope to see you there!
Ideawicket Team
www.ideawicket.com
This is one section out of 54 segments in their terms of use policy. Notice the term "sub-licensable " in this section. They are stating they can sell your material to anyone as long as it is posted on their site.
I would call that a red flag.
Where the Innovator posts or submits any Idea to the Website (including any text, photographs, graphics, hyperlinks, drawings, charts, video or audio), the Innovator agrees, by submitting his/her/its Idea, to grant Ideawicket a worldwide royalty-free, non-exclusive, sub-licensable , transferable right and license to use, reproduce, publish, translate, distribute, perform, play, make available to the public, and exercise all publicity rights with respect to the Idea worldwide and/or to incorporate the Idea in other works in any media now known or later developed for the full term of any rights that may exist in the Innovator’s Idea. The foregoing license granted by you terminates once you remove or delete a User Submission from the Ideawicket Website. However, Ideawicket does not assume any responsibility or liability for availability of the Idea, removed or deleted as aforesaid, on the world wide web, having been copied from the Website.
This is under their we are not liable section. As they say "Buyer Beware"
any copying, imitation or theft of any Ideas or infringement of any rights of an Innovator by virtue of the Innovator having placed his/her/its Idea on the Website;
Come visit my sites at http://www.RogerBrown.net
or http://www.looking2license.com
I have gotten 9 products licensed spending less than $100 on each, you can too.
or http://www.looking2license.com
I have gotten 9 products licensed spending less than $100 on each, you can too.
by karan.jain » Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:35 am
- karan.jain
- White Belt
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:31 am
Roger Brown's comments on www.ideawicket.com appear to be without any merit. The scams and cons section is meant to provide a forum to narrate one's experience. Roger Brown does not claim to have any experience of www.ideawicket.com and yet states that an inventor would give them the first option to steal the idea!!. It is in total bad taste and amounts to a misuse of the liberty given by American Inventor Spot. No website claims ownership over the ideas posted – they need rights to post these ideas on their websites, inform others, advertise and offer links to show that the ideas are available.
Thanks to these websites, today we at least have a platform and opportunity where one can showcase one's inventions and ideas to potential users. Roger Brown seems to have forgotten how desperate he must have been when he wanted to sell his first idea (and continues to be so, as can be seen when you visit his website).
Just because you showcase or advertise your idea or the website that allows you to do so is in India does not mean that the idea would be stolen. How can Roger Brown assume this? I am from India and take strong objections to such offensive remarks by Roger Brown just because an Indian website is offering the service.
Even Roger Brown's website showcases his so called inventions. They are as much open to 'stealing' as ideas posted on any other website. Does it mean that he is offering his ideas to be stolen? Roger Brown should shut down his website, sit back home and pray that some day somebody would come knocking at his door looking for his inventions!!
There is nothing wrong in using the term "sub-licencing' by Ideawicket. Even American Inventor Spot claims similar terms of use, but strangely Roger Brown does not find it to be objectionable. Please see below from American Inventor Spot:
"However, by posting, uploading, inputting, providing or submitting ("Posting") your Submission you are granting Site Host, its affiliated companies and necessary sublicensees permission to use your Submission in connection with the operation of their Internet businesses (including, without limitation, all Site Host Services), including, without limitation, the license rights to: copy, distribute, transmit, publicly display, publicly perform, reproduce, edit, translate and reformat your Submission; to publish your name in connection with your Submission; and the right to sublicense such rights to any affiliate of the Services".
Let me state – these websites do a yeoman service by offering a platform to inventors to post their ideas so that the whole world knows that such ideas exist and are available.
Thanks to these websites, today we at least have a platform and opportunity where one can showcase one's inventions and ideas to potential users. Roger Brown seems to have forgotten how desperate he must have been when he wanted to sell his first idea (and continues to be so, as can be seen when you visit his website).
Just because you showcase or advertise your idea or the website that allows you to do so is in India does not mean that the idea would be stolen. How can Roger Brown assume this? I am from India and take strong objections to such offensive remarks by Roger Brown just because an Indian website is offering the service.
Even Roger Brown's website showcases his so called inventions. They are as much open to 'stealing' as ideas posted on any other website. Does it mean that he is offering his ideas to be stolen? Roger Brown should shut down his website, sit back home and pray that some day somebody would come knocking at his door looking for his inventions!!
There is nothing wrong in using the term "sub-licencing' by Ideawicket. Even American Inventor Spot claims similar terms of use, but strangely Roger Brown does not find it to be objectionable. Please see below from American Inventor Spot:
"However, by posting, uploading, inputting, providing or submitting ("Posting") your Submission you are granting Site Host, its affiliated companies and necessary sublicensees permission to use your Submission in connection with the operation of their Internet businesses (including, without limitation, all Site Host Services), including, without limitation, the license rights to: copy, distribute, transmit, publicly display, publicly perform, reproduce, edit, translate and reformat your Submission; to publish your name in connection with your Submission; and the right to sublicense such rights to any affiliate of the Services".
Let me state – these websites do a yeoman service by offering a platform to inventors to post their ideas so that the whole world knows that such ideas exist and are available.
by Road Show » Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:49 am
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Road Show - Brown Belt
- Posts: 962
- Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:39 pm
- Location: SoCal
Karan.jain,
I find your post disturbing for several reasons; first, as a first-time poster, you enter this community, not to add constructively to the body of knowledge, but rather to deride one of its valued members; second, your complaint seems to accuse Roger of a bias based on nationality; third, you seem oblivious to the body of knowledge that Roger has shared with this community in which he is equally concerned that 'desperate' inventors will throw caution to the wind and reveal their ideas in ways that represent considerable peril to the inventor's retention of the rights to their ideas.
Considering that your comments ignore how an inventor might be taken advantage of by posting their ideas on Ideawicket.com, I can only surmise that you are, in some way, connected with this entity. You do bring up a valid point as to the verbiage used on this site's disclaimers paralleling those used by Ideawicket.com; however, you will find that Roger Brown IS equally concerned with inventor's in this community falling victim to unscrupulous invention marketing firms, or worse...the theft of their ideas. Roger is a proponent of using NDA's so secure confidentiality with REPUTABLE companies, but he cautions that the NDA will not protect the inventor against anyone intent on stealing an idea. Ultimately, Roger's message is a prudent message: 'INVENTOR BEWARE' & 'IT IS BETTER TO ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION'.
Finally, Roger did not *target* Ideawicket.com, THEY sent HIM an email. There are a lot of companies, domestic and foreign, that focus on the ideas and dreams of those who are unfamiliar with the perils of intellectual property protection. Thank God for guys like Roger Brown, who do not have an agenda to profit from the ignorance of others.
If you truly believe that posting ideas on internet sites, such as Ideawicket.com, or americaninventorspot.com, is in the inventor's best interests, then perhaps you would like to offer your rationale before calling on Roger to dismantle his own website. You lack what Roger Brown has...a desire to educate would-be inventors as to the pitfalls and perils of the process.
You did not enter this community as a friend, you are welcome to stay, but, IMHO, you are currently in serious need of 'damage control' if you choose to remain.
With Respect,
RSG
I find your post disturbing for several reasons; first, as a first-time poster, you enter this community, not to add constructively to the body of knowledge, but rather to deride one of its valued members; second, your complaint seems to accuse Roger of a bias based on nationality; third, you seem oblivious to the body of knowledge that Roger has shared with this community in which he is equally concerned that 'desperate' inventors will throw caution to the wind and reveal their ideas in ways that represent considerable peril to the inventor's retention of the rights to their ideas.
Considering that your comments ignore how an inventor might be taken advantage of by posting their ideas on Ideawicket.com, I can only surmise that you are, in some way, connected with this entity. You do bring up a valid point as to the verbiage used on this site's disclaimers paralleling those used by Ideawicket.com; however, you will find that Roger Brown IS equally concerned with inventor's in this community falling victim to unscrupulous invention marketing firms, or worse...the theft of their ideas. Roger is a proponent of using NDA's so secure confidentiality with REPUTABLE companies, but he cautions that the NDA will not protect the inventor against anyone intent on stealing an idea. Ultimately, Roger's message is a prudent message: 'INVENTOR BEWARE' & 'IT IS BETTER TO ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION'.
Finally, Roger did not *target* Ideawicket.com, THEY sent HIM an email. There are a lot of companies, domestic and foreign, that focus on the ideas and dreams of those who are unfamiliar with the perils of intellectual property protection. Thank God for guys like Roger Brown, who do not have an agenda to profit from the ignorance of others.
If you truly believe that posting ideas on internet sites, such as Ideawicket.com, or americaninventorspot.com, is in the inventor's best interests, then perhaps you would like to offer your rationale before calling on Roger to dismantle his own website. You lack what Roger Brown has...a desire to educate would-be inventors as to the pitfalls and perils of the process.
You did not enter this community as a friend, you are welcome to stay, but, IMHO, you are currently in serious need of 'damage control' if you choose to remain.
With Respect,
RSG
Last edited by Road Show on Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
by Michelle » Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:49 am
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Michelle - Black Belt
- Posts: 1529
- Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:27 am
I think the biggest thing to take away from this section is that it is the inventors' responsibility to be cautious and to do some research before dealing with any person or entity....even us.
Not to be paranoid, but to be cautious.
We do not accept postings for our invention gallery unless the item has been publicly disclosed elsewhere. This way, there is little risk to an inventor from posting with us.
Also, the laws in the US about copyright are robust. The same cannot be said about the intellectual property right laws in India and in other countries.
A caution for inventors to be careful I think is appropriate. Since inventors featured on our site are getting contacted by ideawicket, a discussion of such sites is also appropriate.
I think the issue may be the title of this section. Is there a more appropriate naming of this section to discuss all the various companies and services for inventors and inventions without creating an automatic negative stigma?
Not to be paranoid, but to be cautious.
We do not accept postings for our invention gallery unless the item has been publicly disclosed elsewhere. This way, there is little risk to an inventor from posting with us.
Also, the laws in the US about copyright are robust. The same cannot be said about the intellectual property right laws in India and in other countries.
A caution for inventors to be careful I think is appropriate. Since inventors featured on our site are getting contacted by ideawicket, a discussion of such sites is also appropriate.
I think the issue may be the title of this section. Is there a more appropriate naming of this section to discuss all the various companies and services for inventors and inventions without creating an automatic negative stigma?
by Michelle » Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:56 am
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Michelle - Black Belt
- Posts: 1529
- Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:27 am
Roger Brown had asked me where is an appropriate place to post his concerns and I had suggested this section...with a promise to rename it (which I then promptly forgot to ask our webmaster to do).
I agree that the name of the section does create too strong a negative inference. We will rename the section today. ..so that people can feel more comfortable discussing companies and services without the automatic stigma.
SOrry everyone...it was my fault that I did not rename this section yet.
I agree that the name of the section does create too strong a negative inference. We will rename the section today. ..so that people can feel more comfortable discussing companies and services without the automatic stigma.
SOrry everyone...it was my fault that I did not rename this section yet.
by Road Show » Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:58 am
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Road Show - Brown Belt
- Posts: 962
- Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:39 pm
- Location: SoCal
Michelle,
There are already too many forum headings on this site, but you have a valid point. Having posted under the 'SCAMS AND CONS' heading is perhaps what riled Karan.jain in the first place.
RSG
There are already too many forum headings on this site, but you have a valid point. Having posted under the 'SCAMS AND CONS' heading is perhaps what riled Karan.jain in the first place.
RSG
by Michelle » Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:31 am
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Michelle - Black Belt
- Posts: 1529
- Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:27 am
We have now renamed the whole section from "scams and cons" to "scam, cons and other risks to watch out for". I think this is better.
Yes, we do have too many topic headings. The question now is what to get rid of without losing all the stuff we have in them...so I think we are stuck.
UPDATE: We got rid of four of the forum headings....you ask, we try.
Yes, we do have too many topic headings. The question now is what to get rid of without losing all the stuff we have in them...so I think we are stuck.
UPDATE: We got rid of four of the forum headings....you ask, we try.
by CriterionD » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:27 pm
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CriterionD - Blue Belt
- Posts: 431
- Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:23 pm
- Location: Tempe, AZ
Just to point out, Karan, if thats his name, is wrong to call out anyone for discussing concerns about an invention consulting (or related) firm. Regardless of whether a firm is legitimate or the shadiest company ever, all honest conversation does is promote the truth.
I don't know much about IdeaWicket and I would advise any inventor to be skeptical of posting their invention or idea on any website. That being said the language in the terms of use policy are not close to being reason for concern IMO.
First, it says absolutely nothing about granting Ideawicket a license to make use or sell your invention. THe key phrases are "publicity rights" and "works in any media." This simply gives them permission to help promote your invention thru media outlets - which is theoretically the reason you are posting your idea to their site to begin with. Moreover, it states specifically that this license ends as soon as you remove your idea from their website. A lot of sites would go further, and claim some sort of unending publicity right, so they could use your idea to help market their site in the event of a success story.
"any copying, imitation or theft of any Ideas or infringement of any rights of an Innovator by virtue of the Innovator having placed his/her/its Idea on the Website; "
This just means that they are making it clear that if someone decides to copy your idea after viewing it on their site, they can't take responsibility for this. Its the legal equivalent of AmericanInventorSpot clarifying that if you decided to showcase an idea or invention on one of their message boards, and somebody who viewed the message board decided they wanted to copy the idea, regardless of any patent protection - that AmericanInventorSpot would not be liable for this and would not be required to fund your legal fees if suing for infringement.
I'll also add, just to clarify, that if you have a US patent, the invention disclosed in the patent is no longer confidential information - anywhere - and is not legally protected anywhere outside of the US unless also protected by foreign patent applications.
I don't know much about IdeaWicket and I would advise any inventor to be skeptical of posting their invention or idea on any website. That being said the language in the terms of use policy are not close to being reason for concern IMO.
First, it says absolutely nothing about granting Ideawicket a license to make use or sell your invention. THe key phrases are "publicity rights" and "works in any media." This simply gives them permission to help promote your invention thru media outlets - which is theoretically the reason you are posting your idea to their site to begin with. Moreover, it states specifically that this license ends as soon as you remove your idea from their website. A lot of sites would go further, and claim some sort of unending publicity right, so they could use your idea to help market their site in the event of a success story.
"any copying, imitation or theft of any Ideas or infringement of any rights of an Innovator by virtue of the Innovator having placed his/her/its Idea on the Website; "
This just means that they are making it clear that if someone decides to copy your idea after viewing it on their site, they can't take responsibility for this. Its the legal equivalent of AmericanInventorSpot clarifying that if you decided to showcase an idea or invention on one of their message boards, and somebody who viewed the message board decided they wanted to copy the idea, regardless of any patent protection - that AmericanInventorSpot would not be liable for this and would not be required to fund your legal fees if suing for infringement.
I'll also add, just to clarify, that if you have a US patent, the invention disclosed in the patent is no longer confidential information - anywhere - and is not legally protected anywhere outside of the US unless also protected by foreign patent applications.
by 5rocks » Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:04 pm
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5rocks - Green Belt
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:36 pm
- Location: milwaukee
Get a patent, plain and simple! Public disclosure is public disclosure whether it is on the internet, a reality show or a napkin. Granted, a patent sometimes will only slow some cheaters down, but let's be honest.......it is the only real protection we have. I too received an email from Ideawicket and it was filed in my "cyber-wastebasket" just the rest of the regular junk mail I get from I.P.&R., Invent-Tech and all of the others. That is my choice. Yes, there are people that will steal your idea. Obviously, a site like InventorSpot is the real deal and is out to help all of us because we want to help each other. Get a patent, a good one with lots of claims if you can. It will pay off in the long-run. One more thing.....it doesn't matter if a company like "Ideawicket" is in India or Indiana. It is a world market and anybody can go to any website. Protect yourself.
Pat Rock
Pat Rock
Scam issues
by Roger Brown » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:50 pm
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Roger Brown - Black Belt
- Posts: 1208
- Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:53 pm
- Location: USA
Wow! I take the day off to do some prototying and come back to a fire! I didn't realize my post would generate such a turmoil. Thank you for the way everyone came to my defense. Your comments are greatly appreciated.
Now I guess I should get on with my rebuttal.
You will note that the section is called Scams, Cons and other Risks. I did not say which one in my opinion I felt you fell under. I consider any website saying post your ideas here a risk. No matter what country they are in. There are novice Inventors that are not fully aware of the risks of disclosing their ideas without a nondisclosure, patent, copyright etc. Everyone on this website has told a new member to be careful how much they are disclosing. The new inventor wants information and feels safe here so they may accidentally release more info than they should and could cause themselves to lose that idea to public domain. A forum where you can post anything about your invention or idea is a open invitation for new Inventors to lose their ideas.
I said “A concern is also that even if you have a U.S.Patent of it you are exposing it to a country you do not have it licensed or internationally patent protected. So, the way I see it you are giving them first option to steal your idea and lets see you try and sue them for patent infringement from the U.Sâ€
Now I guess I should get on with my rebuttal.
Roger Brown's comments on www.ideawicket.com appear to be without any merit. The scams and cons section is meant to provide a forum to narrate one's experience.
You will note that the section is called Scams, Cons and other Risks. I did not say which one in my opinion I felt you fell under. I consider any website saying post your ideas here a risk. No matter what country they are in. There are novice Inventors that are not fully aware of the risks of disclosing their ideas without a nondisclosure, patent, copyright etc. Everyone on this website has told a new member to be careful how much they are disclosing. The new inventor wants information and feels safe here so they may accidentally release more info than they should and could cause themselves to lose that idea to public domain. A forum where you can post anything about your invention or idea is a open invitation for new Inventors to lose their ideas.
Roger Brown does not claim to have any experience of www.ideawicket.com and yet states that an inventor would give them the first option to steal the idea!!.
I said “A concern is also that even if you have a U.S.Patent of it you are exposing it to a country you do not have it licensed or internationally patent protected. So, the way I see it you are giving them first option to steal your idea and lets see you try and sue them for patent infringement from the U.Sâ€
Come visit my sites at http://www.RogerBrown.net
or http://www.looking2license.com
I have gotten 9 products licensed spending less than $100 on each, you can too.
or http://www.looking2license.com
I have gotten 9 products licensed spending less than $100 on each, you can too.
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