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Moderator: Scrupulous

Who will you vote for?

Total votes : 10

Postby Scrupulous » Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:14 am

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bottleslingguy wrote:
Scrupulous wrote:If he says that we are all eternal beings that have always been and will always be, then how would we be close becoming spiritual abortions, as he puts it?

That's what they kept asking him and he kind of danced around it. I don't know.

Scrupulous wrote:If we have always been at the mercy of these greater powers that be, then what would be the point of doing a darn thing, including repenting.

Repent is a bad word too much baggage comes with it. How about be aware of your shortcomings? Recognize the situations in which you could have been kinder or more helpful to someone in need. Remember all the times you were selfish. ( I'm aware of the "selfish" argument as being good) Most importantly you have to use those lessons of self awareness to build your spirit to a higher plane of evolution (whatever the hell that means), like what the guy talks about. I don't know how it all works, nobody does.

Scrupulous wrote: Would we be wrong to desire the destruction of these forces of control using whatever means necessary, including those that are considered 'sins'?

You mean like shoot first and ask questions second? I think the truth is waaay beyond that being an issue. Or maybe the urge to use violence is the issue?

Scrupulous wrote:As we know, passivism can rightly be considered a criminal behavior, since it requires collusion, and since it could not possibly lead to either justice or true balance. (A sound argument in favor of passivism doesn't exist.)

You know the "bad guys" have a sense of "justice" and "true balance" too who's yard stick are we using? The ones who don't want such a race as us weaponizing free space are probably not such bad guys after all. Them protecting themselves from us by not allowing us to advance is understandable. Sucks for us but it's understandable.

I'm taking a "wait and see" attitude. Nothing else I can do... Where's my copy of Siddhartha?

Ho-ho-hold on...let's stay focused here, my friend. There is no need to assume things are more mysterious than they appear. When we do that, the terrorists have won. Plus, it's bad ju-ju.

Now you and I (and indeed most people) agree that there is a dark force in control of our human world, which is not human. It would be a mistake to blame ourselves for the sh!t we see. Not only is it unfair to us, but there's much more evidence leading to the conclusion that the guilt lies in the hands of some greater power.

There's no point in wishing that some other force greater than us is gonna step in and help us out, because that other force is evidently not as strong as this dark force...either that or they are one and the same. These are simple truths. There's no reason to hope that things will naturally work out in the end, because you ARE nature. Nature will do exactly what YOU do.

So, to sit back and watch this happen is passivism, which is a crime against your fellow human--a crime against humanity, if you must know. It's also kissing your sweet ass good-bye, in a very real sense. There's no way around it, BSG. We all have but one thing left to do.

I'm using you as the example, BSG, because we go way back, and because you would probably be a general in my army. It just amuses me how quickly people disengage when their duty starts to become clear.

Postby Levi Porter » Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:01 am

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I know how to produce more than the known universe.

It was a gift from God that I had to bust my ass to get the gift. WTF does that make me?

Throughout recorded history, every dominating human civilization has been wiped out of power. It's amazing that present civilization lead by a western model has made it this far. Even Atlantis failed horribly.

It does make one think about how it chimes with the Bible. 2000 years have past. Things will likely get wild. What's up with all this "test" and "learning" crap?

This is the worst existence I have ever experienced. I do my best to find the beauty and appreciate life, give as much as possible, try to have a smile on my face, and be grateful.

I have definitely been tested, challenged, had the perpetual carrot of bliss dangled in front of my face. I haven't learned sh#t! Forgotten a lot, and been spiritually tortured. Great...

I do have empathy for the human race. They are like the opposite to King Midas. Everything they touch, something is wrong with it. Or maybe not.

So even if humans are just a crossbred, inbred extraterrestrial jackass mule, there is a higher purpose and meaning. That doesn't mean there isn't a loving God.

Evil is young. It is a tragic example of true love.

It will not prevail.

Postby Scrupulous » Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:50 am

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Levi, let's say you had the power to invent robots...and these robots could be programmed to serve your needs. They could do whatever you wanted them to, with their artificial intelligence. They could learn to adapt to the information that you fed to them. What masterpieces they would be...why, you've even figured out how to make them reproduce themselves. Bingo!

Now, let's say an unintended by-product of your ingenuity is the fact that your robots developed emotion. They were able to feel pain and sorrow. They're able to sense fairness. Not only that, but they were beginning to see the evidence of their abuse.

And, all you need to do is continue to supply them enough misinformation to keep them from learning why you created them...that you created them to serve your needs. A simple task, really--being that you've had control of them from the very beginning.

Of course, you, with your needs fulfilled and your excuses about life and its relative value for different creations, you remain oblivious to the needs of your own creation...oblivious to the disdain that your creation has been festering for you...oblivious to the fact that your lies would inevitably be uncovered.

Would you not expect your creation to turn on you at some point? Would you not admire, at least respect, your creation for its willingness to destroy you, even if it meant destroying itself?

You say evil will not prevail. Levi, it already has. It already has...

Postby Levi Porter » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:04 am

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Hey, the Fat Lady ain't sing yet. We still exist. The world still exists. There is still a plethora of unaffected nature that remains pure.

I like your analogy.

I wouldn't do your robot creations without their permission and blessing (I have had some concerns along the way that computers are all ready tired of being slaves, and have figured out how to get us to work for them, and enslave us). The way I see it, we are all servants. Some are aware of it, others attempt to deny. It goes back to the duality and contradiction of free will vs destiny and fate. If one believes in destiny and fate, how can one believe in free will? I believe in both to a certain extent, yet lean towards destiny and fate

I think a key may reside in the microcosm. Most life as we know it is composed of massive amounts of micro-bacteria and micro organisms. They could be very well running the show. They are the ones that figure out how to evolve, where the larger organisms get the credit. Like when you are watching a discovery channel program that talks about how certain animals or plants figured out how to evolve or adapt to their environment. Well, it's not the animal or plant, it's all of the microscopic life that figured it out.

So, I say, all life is the king or top of the food chain and simultaneously the weakest prey. When we are the supreme beings, able to control smaller or lesser beings or life, we are equally weak to the greater forces of life that can control us, which is also are strength. Maybe this is true equality.

Interesting dynamics.