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momentum perpetual motion?

Postby jake » Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:59 am

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Idea: momentum of a load
Have you ever drove a manual car and tried to take off in 5th gear, the car would stall. If you think about it the output of the motor has not changed and the weight of the car has not changed (load).
My idea is to have 2 or more electric motors (stationary) of the same output all spinning a heavy flywheel (I am unsure of weight but more load than just one motors output). As soon as the flywheel reaches top speed disengage all but one motor and loop a generator back to the motor. The generator would made to produce more than the motor uses. I believe this is possible with the weight of the flywheel spinning, the momentum of the flywheel adds power.

Re: momentum perpetual motion?

Postby JoeWaisman » Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:42 pm

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"Have you ever drove a manual car and tried to take off in 5th gear, the car would stall. If you think about it the output of the motor has not changed and the weight of the car has not changed (load). "

1) The reason this does not work is the torque output of the motor is not sufficient to overcome the friction and inertial mass of the car at low speeds. To resolve this the speed is reduced and torque increased through gearing.

"My idea is to have 2 or more electric motors (stationary) of the same output all spinning a heavy flywheel (I am unsure of weight but more load than just one motors output)."

2) So you're spending energy to put energy into another system. Sounds reasonable so far...note that the generation of energy is not 100%, and the target energy system (the flywheel) will lose energy to friction over time as it slows.

As soon as the flywheel reaches top speed disengage all but one motor and loop a generator back to the motor.

3) So what you have is A) A flywheel - which has stored momentum aka rotational kinetic energy - turning a generator, B) A generator whose output goes to an electric motor and C) A motor that turns the flywheel.

The generator would made to produce more than the motor uses. I believe this is possible with the weight of the flywheel spinning, the momentum of the flywheel adds power.

Let's assume that we have a zero friction environment (this can occur in space), the connecting wires have zero resistance and are perfectly insulated. Also assume both the motor and generator are 100% efficient....this never happens. In that special circumstance your system would be a perpetual motion machine. It would not however experience overunity. What would happen is the system would have stored kinetic energy from [2] above. This energy would transfer back and forth from the flywheel to the generator to the motor to the flywheel, etc.

In reality there are systems that will run continuously, but they either have zero friction (as is nearly the case with the earth spinning...and even that is slowing down each century) or they get their power from an external source. Examples of this include the "drinking bird",
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Re: momentum perpetual motion?

Postby kalens99 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:38 pm

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I like the efforts at Perpetual Motion machines but you first have to disprove the work that Rudolph Clausius and William Thomson made almost 200 years ago that would suggest they are not possible. These may be old theories but no one has come close to disproving them so I think that a real perpetual motion machine would not be as simplistic as anyone suggests.

But I don't mean to discourage you. Inventing is about testing and breaking boundaries. Just know what you are getting into. This could take a lifetime to make work or more.