FAQ  •   Login  •   Register  •   Subscribe 

Welcome to the Forum for InventorSpot.com, the most popular invention related website in the world. Read our welcome message.

Skip to content

Moderators: Scrupulous, Roger Brown, citizen


Non-Porovisional Utility Patent Application status

Postby davh12 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:16 am

davh12
White Belt
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:02 am
All,

I have an application for a Non-provisional Utlility Patent for a helicopter rotor system that I designed. It is being reviewed by Bell Helicopter. When I was in Iraq I had a Patent Attorney, but after the initial exam was complete, he jacked up the price to get to a patent pending status, so I let him go. I downloaded the necessary paperwork and filed for the patent myself. I track it with a private PAIR and it has cleared the preexam at the USPTO. The message reads: "Dispatched from pre-exam, not yet docketed". Anyone know what this status means exactly? Am I still on the right track? Last question......why do patent attornies screw people over by changing the price..........oh and do they think people in the "information age" are not going to go to the USPTO web site and look into things themselves? My former patent attorney quoted me about $2400 to $3000 bones to get to a "patent pending status" because I was a "small entity" . After he found out that it was patentable, his price changed to $11,000 bones. The patent office only wanted $550 bones...................what a sham.

David

Re: Non-Porovisional Utility Patent Application status

Postby Gizmo » Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:16 am

Gizmo
 
David, When any application is filed you have Patent Pending status. It wouldnt matter if the the attorney charged you $1.00 or $100,000. Small Entity only has to do with the USPTO fee not the Attorneys...........

This should be an interesting thread.....

Re: Non-Porovisional Utility Patent Application status

Postby davh12 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:18 am

davh12
White Belt
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:02 am
Thanx............Patent attornies sure do twist things around....at least some of them do.

Re: Non-Porovisional Utility Patent Application status

Postby DaveO » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:25 am

DaveO
White Belt
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:41 am
David,

My understanding is that your application has passed the pre-exam stage, but that it has not yet been assigned/transferred to the Patent Examiner who will be doing the examination.

Good for you to get Private Pair access to your application. That is by far the best way to deal with the Patent Office. When you're in Private Pair, there should be a tab at the top that states "First Action Prediction," or something to that effect. If you click on that it will give you the PTO's estimated duration before your first Office Action. In my experience those prediction numbers are fairly accurate (give or take 3 months or so). If that tab is not up there, then just wait and it will eventually come up in the next couple of months. Since your status says you have passed pre-exam, everything is fine with the application for now, and you're now playing the waiting game.
David Oppenhuizen
Registered Patent Attorney
My Law Firm

Any content provided by me is for informative purposes only, is not legal advice, and does not create any attorney-client relationship.

Re: Non-Porovisional Utility Patent Application status

Postby davh12 » Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:44 am

davh12
White Belt
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:02 am
David O

Thanx,

It left pre-exam....completed classification and now the above mentioned status is where it is at. I did look at the first action date, but I had watched other rotor systems in this classifiaction push though in 13-15 months.....according the the notifications I get when a new patent pops up and I look at the filing date in comparision to the patent issue date. Fingers crossed. Thank you again.

David

Re: Non-Porovisional Utility Patent Application status

Postby DannyB » Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:06 am

DannyB
Green Belt
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:02 am
Location: TX
Davh12,

I have been down this patent road once already and am on the road again for my present project. You can take this for whatever it is worth. I wouldn’t go any further with something as complicated as a helicopter rotor system without an experienced mechanically inclined Patent Attorney. And I feel confident that a Patent Examiner would probably rather communicate with a Patent Attorney on something like this as well.

My first project was a modification to a clothes dryer that would make the clothes dryer take in outside air as the intake air source for the dryer instead of utilizing indoor air as the intake air source. I thought it was a simple system. However I guess it was complicated enough that the way the Attorney wrote up the application it looked completely like a foreign language to me. However, as I learned from reading many patent applications on the USPTO website this foreign language was the “lingo” for a patent application. And I am assuming that a helicopter rotor system could be MUCH more complicated than my clothes dryer modification.

Long story short---I didn’t get the patent. The opinion of another Attorney was that my Attorney botched the application. After a final rejection I learned that it could have cost many many thousands of dollars to take the appeal any further. Due to not being able to afford to take it any further I ended up selling, (transferring) the application to a major appliance manufacturer in it’s final rejected status for a decent price. The manufacturer could afford to fight it whereas I couldn’t. However, if I had gotten that Patent I feel that my royalties on that project would make what I got for the application look like a drop in the bucket.

I guess in summary, if you really have confidence in what you have you really should get professional help, and that would be as soon as your first “Non-Final Rejection” comes in the mail. Rest assured it is coming.

Re: Non-Porovisional Utility Patent Application status

Postby davh12 » Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:21 pm

davh12
White Belt
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:02 am
Danny,

I appreciate your up front honesty. I am mechanically inclined and my previous Patent attorny was a bit surprised when everything went through. Helicopters are complicated, but the rotor system that I designed negates a good deal of the complexity. It is not a minor innovative improvement. It is something of an idea that came to mind 15 years ago and something that I experimented with, working out the kinks, in the las 6 years. From the ground up. I have already presented it to DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency) who did not want me to submit a full proposal because they were concerned the pay off for DOD would not be high enough.........my understanding of the industry's "habits" as learned from other associates dealing with their patents for rotor systems, helped me read between the lines and their "lingo" in the aerospace industry....eliminate the complexity and rate of ware on parts you eliminate profit that is gained from maintenance.....large profit. No thanks was their response. They said that the work outlined in my design had merit. I was trying to get a small amount of money for a large scale UAV. Bell Helicopters is looking at it now. I'm in the process of a building a small scale prototype. We'll see what happens. Keep in touch and if you wish to follow my progress, I keep a web site updated. It has the complete DARPA proposal start to finish.
www.envisionhelicopters.com

Best Regards,

David

Re: Non-Porovisional Utility Patent Application status

Postby apapage » Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:52 pm

apapage
Green Belt
 
Posts: 213
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:30 pm
Location: NYC
I wouldn't necessarily say that the patent office wants to deal with a patent attorney. Examiners are supposed to help pro se inventors identify patentable subject matter in their patent application. In reality, however, many examiner's don't know how draft patent claims and they don't offer any advice. I know an inventor that has been stonewalled by the patent office for over 5 years and he is no closer to an allowance than he was when he filed the patent application. This is when you need an attorney to advocate on your behalf. If you get a good examiner and the claims are in fairly good shape in terms of the formalities, then you can call the examiner to suggest claim amendments that will result in an allowance. If not then you will have to find an attorney that can get the application allowed. Also, three are a lot of rules when it comes to dealing with the patent office. If you don't follow the rules you may end up unintentionally abandoning your application, which can take several thousands to revive. In terms of the cost of the application, $11,000 for a utility seems high. I prefer to work on a budget with the inventor and figure out ways to perform the work within the budget. For example, since it is apparent that you could handle writing your own application, I would have limited my involvement on reviewing the specification and writing the claims.