Welcome to the Forum for InventorSpot.com, the most popular invention related website in the world. Read our welcome message.
Moderators: Michelle, Scrupulous, citizen
Need collaboration with sophisticated idea
by bzguy » Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:01 pm
- bzguy
- White Belt
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:42 pm
Hello fellow thinkers,
i have what i think is the basis for a revolutionary new concept in a tourque-power transmission system, useful in autos, machinery of all types that has.constant torque load changes in standard operation.
I cannot find anything remotely similar in patent searches.
It would require the help of a fluid-dynamics engineer, metal casting, machining, , proptotyper, etc.
This thing has applications so wide that it could be shared several ways, i am not greedy, just do not know how to proceed without taking the risks i hear so many horror stories about..
Any protection ideas welcome, thanks!
i have what i think is the basis for a revolutionary new concept in a tourque-power transmission system, useful in autos, machinery of all types that has.constant torque load changes in standard operation.
I cannot find anything remotely similar in patent searches.
It would require the help of a fluid-dynamics engineer, metal casting, machining, , proptotyper, etc.
This thing has applications so wide that it could be shared several ways, i am not greedy, just do not know how to proceed without taking the risks i hear so many horror stories about..
Any protection ideas welcome, thanks!
Re: Need collaboration with sophisticated idea
by Mark Reyland » Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:18 pm
- Mark Reyland
- Green Belt
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:31 am
Hi BZGuy, and welcome to the wild wacky world of inventing.
Step one is to document, document, document. This is very important to make sure you start off protecting your idea. The fastest way to do this is an Inventor Notebook. You can read more about it on the UIA Daily Inventor blog http://inventoropinion.blogspot.com/201 ... -book.html (or the copy we post here on ISpot)
After you have documented your idea, then you should get an NDA together ( http://inventoropinion.blogspot.com/201 ... -ndas.html ) This will help protect you with the people who will need to help you develop it.
When that's all done, (and assuming you have found nothing else like it on the market) simply start working with the trades that are needed to build one.
Oh..and read everything you can get your hands on about the process of taking a product to market, or licensing technology to a company…if it works you’ll need that later.
Good luck …and keep inventing, society depends on it.
Step one is to document, document, document. This is very important to make sure you start off protecting your idea. The fastest way to do this is an Inventor Notebook. You can read more about it on the UIA Daily Inventor blog http://inventoropinion.blogspot.com/201 ... -book.html (or the copy we post here on ISpot)
After you have documented your idea, then you should get an NDA together ( http://inventoropinion.blogspot.com/201 ... -ndas.html ) This will help protect you with the people who will need to help you develop it.
When that's all done, (and assuming you have found nothing else like it on the market) simply start working with the trades that are needed to build one.
Oh..and read everything you can get your hands on about the process of taking a product to market, or licensing technology to a company…if it works you’ll need that later.
Good luck …and keep inventing, society depends on it.
Re: Need collaboration with sophisticated idea
by bzguy » Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:05 pm
- bzguy
- White Belt
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:42 pm
Hi and thanks Mark,
here's the thing. I have what I think is an unused concept that is the integral part of of a radically new transmission system. Cannot find this on any search.
Picture the guts of your average 4 speed automatic transmission, (pretty convoluted) and then picture a similar product, a concept with perhaps 50-75% fewer and more energy efficient parts, but still needing people of several disciplines to design properly. I could hook up with a machinist and go trial and error for years, or simply share the idea with the right qualified team. A think tank comprised of fluid dynamic, casting, machining, engineers, plus I'm sure some more techs whose function is critical, just unknown to me. I am just a thinker/innovator guy, understand physics, work well with tools, and I need help if this is going to market in my lifetime!.
All I want is protection and a small slice of a huge pie if this thing is anywhere near what I think it can be. I don't pretend to be an Einstein, but I have had ideas that were huge successes that I arrived at completely independently.
This one I have always considered my masterpiece. Need considerable funding though to revolutionize the auto transmission industry? The industry impedance is a scary thought in itself if it works as well as it should.
I picture it like solar VS oil companies, big time discouragement tactics.
I'm listening though!
here's the thing. I have what I think is an unused concept that is the integral part of of a radically new transmission system. Cannot find this on any search.
Picture the guts of your average 4 speed automatic transmission, (pretty convoluted) and then picture a similar product, a concept with perhaps 50-75% fewer and more energy efficient parts, but still needing people of several disciplines to design properly. I could hook up with a machinist and go trial and error for years, or simply share the idea with the right qualified team. A think tank comprised of fluid dynamic, casting, machining, engineers, plus I'm sure some more techs whose function is critical, just unknown to me. I am just a thinker/innovator guy, understand physics, work well with tools, and I need help if this is going to market in my lifetime!.
All I want is protection and a small slice of a huge pie if this thing is anywhere near what I think it can be. I don't pretend to be an Einstein, but I have had ideas that were huge successes that I arrived at completely independently.
This one I have always considered my masterpiece. Need considerable funding though to revolutionize the auto transmission industry? The industry impedance is a scary thought in itself if it works as well as it should.
I picture it like solar VS oil companies, big time discouragement tactics.
I'm listening though!
Re: Need collaboration with sophisticated idea
by JoeWaisman » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:38 pm
-
JoeWaisman - Green Belt
- Posts: 234
- Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:10 pm
Everything I've written here is based upon a guess of how I think would be done. Feel free to correct me, or withold the implementation details that need to be kept secret as you see fit.
Interesting. If memory serves: In order to hit a specific torque value you would need to vary the engine speed based upon the mechanical input to the transmission. It seems as though CVT transmissions *could* be used as a component of this system. The second component would involve a sensor that measures the torque output of the engine and sets the CVT transmission gearing to get the desired torque at the transmission output.
Based upon the above I would consider CVT transmissions similar. If that is so, your specific solution might be unique and patentable. A controller that results in constant torque output with existing transmissions might be more valuable.
bzguy wrote:transmission system[...] that has.constant torque[...]
I cannot find anything remotely similar in patent searches.
Interesting. If memory serves: In order to hit a specific torque value you would need to vary the engine speed based upon the mechanical input to the transmission. It seems as though CVT transmissions *could* be used as a component of this system. The second component would involve a sensor that measures the torque output of the engine and sets the CVT transmission gearing to get the desired torque at the transmission output.
Based upon the above I would consider CVT transmissions similar. If that is so, your specific solution might be unique and patentable. A controller that results in constant torque output with existing transmissions might be more valuable.
___________________________________________
"The horse is here to stay but the automobile is only a novelty, a fad."
Fun links:
*http://www.scribd.com/doc/441708/Bad-Predictions-About-Great-Inventions
"The horse is here to stay but the automobile is only a novelty, a fad."
Fun links:
*http://www.scribd.com/doc/441708/Bad-Predictions-About-Great-Inventions
Re: Need collaboration with sophisticated idea
by bzguy » Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:49 am
- bzguy
- White Belt
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:42 pm
Hello Joe,
Everything you have said is correct, sensors for torque over fuel consumption would play a major part in this, but the difference is a major change in the mechanics of how the actual energy is transferred, It is a CVT, but without the use of, gears, clutches, belts etc. which cause friction and wear. Belts, clutch plates, gears, all have friction points that are power-robbing and eventually wear out. They are a nightmare to disassemble and repair. The only wear points would be bearings, similar to a torque converter, using fluids to tranfer torque.
Everything you have said is correct, sensors for torque over fuel consumption would play a major part in this, but the difference is a major change in the mechanics of how the actual energy is transferred, It is a CVT, but without the use of, gears, clutches, belts etc. which cause friction and wear. Belts, clutch plates, gears, all have friction points that are power-robbing and eventually wear out. They are a nightmare to disassemble and repair. The only wear points would be bearings, similar to a torque converter, using fluids to tranfer torque.
Re: Need collaboration with sophisticated idea
by Roger Brown » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:41 am
-
Roger Brown - Black Belt
- Posts: 1210
- Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:53 pm
- Location: USA
In the absence of real life materials you can try animation to prove proof of concept. You can also use programs like Google sketch to make concept drawings without spending a lot of money.
Come visit my sites at http://www.RogerBrown.net
or http://www.looking2license.com
I have gotten 9 products licensed spending less than $100 on each, you can too.
or http://www.looking2license.com
I have gotten 9 products licensed spending less than $100 on each, you can too.
Re: Need collaboration with sophisticated idea
by bzguy » Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:29 am
- bzguy
- White Belt
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:42 pm
From Joe,........."A controller that results in constant torque output with existing transmissions might be more valuable."
Hi Joe, Thanks again for your input.
While constant torque is valuable for lots of applications, where a steady demand is needed, it is exactly not what a car transmission needs to do. This vast market, along with a simpler version for the one you mention, is what I was aiming at.
Vehicles and many other variable-load machines need to start from dead stops, climb hills,etc., and do it all at the most efficient RPM/MPG possible. This is in my humble estimation the number two transportation technology in need of improvement, right after a non-fossil fuel motor.
Thanks again, ANY input welcome, Happy New Year all!
Hi Joe, Thanks again for your input.
While constant torque is valuable for lots of applications, where a steady demand is needed, it is exactly not what a car transmission needs to do. This vast market, along with a simpler version for the one you mention, is what I was aiming at.
Vehicles and many other variable-load machines need to start from dead stops, climb hills,etc., and do it all at the most efficient RPM/MPG possible. This is in my humble estimation the number two transportation technology in need of improvement, right after a non-fossil fuel motor.
Thanks again, ANY input welcome, Happy New Year all!
Re: Need collaboration with sophisticated idea
by JoeWaisman » Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:46 am
-
JoeWaisman - Green Belt
- Posts: 234
- Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:10 pm
Plainly and simply, this idea will work.
Friction is indeed power robbing when it results in heat rather than power transfer. There is a bit of inefficiency too though, when using a fluid to transfer torque. The key there is 1) to have a well machined part and 2) a clearance that will remain functional,efficient, etc when thermal expansion/contraction on some normal temperature range is considered. Fortunately this isn't a new consideration and automatic transmissions have had to deal with this for years. Their clearance specs would be a good starting point.
You want to build an independent group of people from scratch and bring the idea to market. I'm not a lawyer and I haven't been through this exact process. In spite of that here are some thoughts (most based upon reading posts from this site):
1) NDA's (non-disclosure agreements) are useful whenever sharing the details.
2) Contract work contracts should specify zero ownership, have clear deliverables and specify what happens if each is not met.
3) Work for ownership should also specify clear deliverables, how much of the product people own when their contribution is complete, what happens if the contribution is partially or totally incomplete.
4) Assemble a team of the best people you can find. Conflict in business is nearly a given. It's best if, in times of conflict, the group members at least respect the skills of the others.
I worked for a company when I was 18 that built fiber optic signs that mounted on the sides of blimps. The CEO, sales person, marketing manager etc all valued their specific role above the others. This of course can lead to conflict.
From reading I see a lot of people getting stuck at one of two points:
1) They have an idea they want to sell and can't quite get a company interested in licensing the product.
2) They create an idea they want to bring to market, build the product, manufacture it and can't find anyone to sell the actual product.
In other words, it may not seem like it, but the reality is that creating a prototype and having it manufactured is the easy part. Getting it to actually sell at that point is tough. Start thinking about whether this would be licensed or manufactured in house, and create a sales plan that complements that. BTW: if I were working with your idea I'd thinking licensing first since inventory costs could be prohibatively high for your product.
bzguy wrote:It is a CVT, but without the use of, gears, clutches, belts etc. which cause friction and wear. Belts, clutch plates, gears, all have friction points that are power-robbing and eventually wear out. They are a nightmare to disassemble and repair. The only wear points would be bearings, similar to a torque converter, using fluids to tranfer torque.
Friction is indeed power robbing when it results in heat rather than power transfer. There is a bit of inefficiency too though, when using a fluid to transfer torque. The key there is 1) to have a well machined part and 2) a clearance that will remain functional,efficient, etc when thermal expansion/contraction on some normal temperature range is considered. Fortunately this isn't a new consideration and automatic transmissions have had to deal with this for years. Their clearance specs would be a good starting point.
bzguy wrote:This thing has applications so wide that it could be shared several ways, i am not greedy, just do not know how to proceed without taking the risks i hear so many horror stories about..
Any protection ideas welcome, thanks!
You want to build an independent group of people from scratch and bring the idea to market. I'm not a lawyer and I haven't been through this exact process. In spite of that here are some thoughts (most based upon reading posts from this site):
1) NDA's (non-disclosure agreements) are useful whenever sharing the details.
2) Contract work contracts should specify zero ownership, have clear deliverables and specify what happens if each is not met.
3) Work for ownership should also specify clear deliverables, how much of the product people own when their contribution is complete, what happens if the contribution is partially or totally incomplete.
4) Assemble a team of the best people you can find. Conflict in business is nearly a given. It's best if, in times of conflict, the group members at least respect the skills of the others.
I worked for a company when I was 18 that built fiber optic signs that mounted on the sides of blimps. The CEO, sales person, marketing manager etc all valued their specific role above the others. This of course can lead to conflict.
From reading I see a lot of people getting stuck at one of two points:
1) They have an idea they want to sell and can't quite get a company interested in licensing the product.
2) They create an idea they want to bring to market, build the product, manufacture it and can't find anyone to sell the actual product.
In other words, it may not seem like it, but the reality is that creating a prototype and having it manufactured is the easy part. Getting it to actually sell at that point is tough. Start thinking about whether this would be licensed or manufactured in house, and create a sales plan that complements that. BTW: if I were working with your idea I'd thinking licensing first since inventory costs could be prohibatively high for your product.
___________________________________________
"The horse is here to stay but the automobile is only a novelty, a fad."
Fun links:
*http://www.scribd.com/doc/441708/Bad-Predictions-About-Great-Inventions
"The horse is here to stay but the automobile is only a novelty, a fad."
Fun links:
*http://www.scribd.com/doc/441708/Bad-Predictions-About-Great-Inventions
Re: Need collaboration with sophisticated idea
by bzguy » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:57 pm
- bzguy
- White Belt
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:42 pm
OK,
Any fluid dynamic experts out there?
Remember or familiar with the cornstarch party trick? Mixed with water at the right ratio, it forms a paste that behaves like a liquid at times, and a solid at others. Namely when pressure is applied. if you put a glob of this batter like consistency stuff in your upright palm, it will begin to seep down through the cracks between your fingers and ultimately down your arm, onto eventually the floor.
However, if you just close your fist slightly and apply a little pressure, it becomes a solid in the molded shape of the inside of your hand.
Question?.....................
Are there any similar compounds, quasi solid/liquid, that are easier and stabler under temperature changes, moisture content, etc.?
Any fluid dynamic experts out there?
Remember or familiar with the cornstarch party trick? Mixed with water at the right ratio, it forms a paste that behaves like a liquid at times, and a solid at others. Namely when pressure is applied. if you put a glob of this batter like consistency stuff in your upright palm, it will begin to seep down through the cracks between your fingers and ultimately down your arm, onto eventually the floor.
However, if you just close your fist slightly and apply a little pressure, it becomes a solid in the molded shape of the inside of your hand.
Question?.....................
Are there any similar compounds, quasi solid/liquid, that are easier and stabler under temperature changes, moisture content, etc.?
Re: Need collaboration with sophisticated idea
by JoeWaisman » Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:37 pm
-
JoeWaisman - Green Belt
- Posts: 234
- Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:10 pm
bzguy wrote:OK,
Any fluid dynamic experts out there?
[...] Are there any similar compounds, quasi solid/liquid, that are easier and stabler under temperature changes, moisture content, etc.?
I am no expert, but do know a small amount about fluid dynamics because it involves one of my favorite ideas. In my mind the ideal would be transmission fluid. You would not want the fluid to become solid because this would stop its flow...and that would prevent the heat stored in that fluid from being sent to the fluid reservoir. Using semi-solid fluid would instead trap heat at the moving parts. This could cause the fluid to break down, and the parts to warp.
Again normal transmission fluid is probably best. If you want better efficiency and worse heat dissipation then you could use a high thermal grade, higher viscosity transmission fluid.
___________________________________________
"The horse is here to stay but the automobile is only a novelty, a fad."
Fun links:
*http://www.scribd.com/doc/441708/Bad-Predictions-About-Great-Inventions
"The horse is here to stay but the automobile is only a novelty, a fad."
Fun links:
*http://www.scribd.com/doc/441708/Bad-Predictions-About-Great-Inventions
14 posts
• Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2